Basma Adams, T1D, MSN, RN, PHN, Public Speaker & Influencer

[00:00:03] Rob Howe: Hello and welcome back to another episode of Diabetics Doing Things. We are telling the amazing stories of people with diabetes from all over the world and returning to the podcast after a long hiatus, although we did have in 2021, you're featured in a blog as part of Eritrea's blogger series, Basma Adams. Welcome back to the show.

[00:00:26] Basma Adams: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for having me back, you two beautiful people.

[00:00:28] Eritrea: It's good to have you back. And it's also like, you know, I was I came away from our first interview and like this was four different apart, like four living locations ago for me. So like it's a long time. But I do remember coming away from that interview and being like. This 19 year old person is, first of all, like on her P's and Q's, like definitely like pushing herself forward and being like, man, when she's going to be a force to be reckoned with down the road. And I just want to say, like, I think I was right. I think I was right about that. So, you know, you never know. Okay, so I'm going to tell a story because Basma's always been a really nice person. But as everybody knows, I am not. I'm not a kind human sometimes. And so I remember like coming on the scene and like seeing this girl who like didn't look like me, but kind of. And then I was just like, why? What's the disconnect here? Because I remember being like, I like you, but I don't know if I like you. Like, I just was so unsure about you. And then I think I went back yesterday and I looked and you had sent me a really nice DM, which was like hey welcome to the diabetes online space if you have any questions like it's good to see you here and if you have any questions you can always reach out like I'd love to be friends which was like the first message I got from Basma and I was just like what a genuine and kind human being because like I'm so cold-hearted and dark-hearted that I don't really send messages like that so to get one from a place that so many people had told me was so volatile and not a good place to be I just felt instantly like welcomed and then as we got to know each other I learned more about Basma and being a person of like being a multiracial person is really hard. It's not something you're not going to find another Eritrea Mexican person. And I don't know if I'll find another Moroccan French white person. And so it was really nice to connect with Basma and then find other places where we just clicked, even if maybe we were different in some way. So I think it went further than diabetes when we became friends. But that's just what it was for

[00:02:18] Basma Adams: me yeah no I remember she she Eritrea was so interesting because she she knows how to ask me questions that I think like any other person I would be very it I would take offense to maybe if it came from someone that didn't live a lot of the same experiences that she and I do as people who have been trying to find ourselves and find people like ourselves in the space and I remember like she always just had that curiosity from a place of love but she also knows how to like get me to my senses pretty quickly. And so that's what I remember most about her in the beginning and thinking, I really like this person because not a lot of people would put themselves out there like that. And, you know, two peas in a pod, as I like to say. Okay, so we had a little bit of

[00:03:05] Rob Howe: a technical change. We had to shuffle some things around. Those of you who have been on the podcast know that we are always adapting and always changing. But we were talking about you being a gregarious driven 19 year old who was on the podcast in 2017. And Eritrea mentioned earlier, like before we were recording that when she first met you, she didn't know how old you were because you can kind of project older and younger. And so let's talk about it. How old are you Basma? What you've been up to since the last, the last few years? I get that all the time. So I'm very

[00:03:38] Basma Adams: used to it. I am 26. I'll turn 27 in April. But yeah, I was 19 when you guys first interviewed me or Rob, when you first had me on. And that was insanity. I was such a baby back then. I've been up to a lot and I've been through a lot. Let's just say that.

[00:03:56] Rob Howe: I want to talk about that too, because you, especially during the pandemic, you were one of my Instagram friends and follows who was like frontline working. There's no other way to describe it. It was frontline all the time. And you were doing a really great job of sharing the sort of burden that healthcare workers were undergoing. And you also were experiencing that like in those rotations for the first time in many cases. And so you're very transparently sharing that journey. And we're going to talk about the connection between your chronic illness and your career in medicine and how those are sort of informed or how diabetes sort of pointed you in that direction. But what was it like for those years of the pandemic where frontline workers were carrying the heaviest burden for all of us? What was that like being there on the front lines

[00:04:51] Basma Adams: of the front lines? In a few words, I'll say it was incredibly tough. It was mentally draining. during COVID as soon as COVID hit I was starting grad school so I was getting my master's in nursing and they always say you know when you get into nursing you quickly realize how much of a sacrifice the field is and whether you're meant to be in it or not it's not for the faint of heart let me just tell you that nurses are truly I mean all health care workers are on the front line but nurses are truly there like we're there 12 hours a day through the worst and the best times of a patient's life. And I'll just tell you, it was some of the hardest days that I've had just being there being, being on the front line when there was so little known about COVID and the effects that it had, especially as someone living with diabetes. There was just so much going on in my head thinking like, is this the right time? Should I be doing this? Like, is this okay to be like, should I should I even be getting into healthcare when I myself have to look out for myself? And I think that is what I knew. That's when I knew that healthcare was my calling. I really just had to push all of that noise because there's so many people telling you, you shouldn't be doing that. And I just had to push it all out. And I'm really glad that I stuck it out, obviously, but it taught me a lot about myself and it taught me a lot about healthcare. And I think that now I know what healthcare is and I've seen it at its lowest and I've seen it at its highest. So yeah, that was a journey. That was a hard journey. I think like learning, right.

[00:06:25] Rob Howe: It's such a huge part. Like you're talking about getting your masters of nursing. Like that is obviously still like a learning program. So the beginning of, of your career and a nurse's career, what did you learn that maybe you didn't expect? And like, what, what did that teach you that you've taken away from those? Like you said, very tough times that you're now, you know, implementing in your, in your care of patients going forward.

[00:06:48] Basma Adams: I learned that grad school, school in general, nursing school, it really only teaches you the foundation, right? You're learning textbook policies, procedures, you know, sicknesses, illnesses, whatnot, right? but you're not really becoming a nurse until you hit the floors and when you hit the floors it's really up to you and how you perceive the field that you're in to become the nurse that you're meant to be and I think living with diabetes my entire life I'm a better nurse because of it I can relate to patients on a level that a lot of healthcare providers unfortunately can't and that is something you can't learn in a book. You can't learn how to truly just sit with your patient and let them vent or listen to a parent who truly thinks that, you know, they're going to lose their child. Nothing teaches you, nothing prepares you for that kind of environment. And I think that I'm just, I'm a better person because of it. And I'm, I'm better equipped to handle those emotions because I've been through so many emotions like that myself in just my day to day. And, and that's what I learned. That was my biggest takeaway is that I am meant to be a nurse because of the things that I've been through. And because of things that my parents have been through, this is why I meant to be here in the here and now. And nursing school, like, just doesn't, it doesn't give you the learning blocks for that, because there's no way you can learn that unless

[00:08:15] Rob Howe: you've been through it. I love that. I also, so you're, you've, I've been really lucky to be able watch you be different kinds of nurses. So where you're at now is not where you started when you started your nursing career. And I feel that you do have like a servant's heart and like a healthcare worker. You are willing to walk that walk and talk that talk. But you went from I think like you were in emergency care before. And then you left emergency care. I was in the PICU. The ICU. Yeah. Yeah. So you were like, you're like in the ICU with these like babies and like, like peds, like, oh my God, like these tiny little sweet potato babies. So I guess when you did make the decision or when you did transition out of peds ICU, like, was that difficult for you? How did you even get there with such a servant heart that you have? I, so I was a PCA or basically a

[00:09:11] Basma Adams: CNA, a nursing assistant in the ICU during, during nursing school. I knew I wanted to go into critical care. I didn't know where that necessarily meant. There's so many avenues to go. But I've always known I want to do pediatrics. I just I love children with every ounce of my heart. And so I knew I wanted to go into peds. When I went into the pediatric ICU, I don't think I was prepared for the atrocities that you see. I mean, there's only so much that a human mind and heart and soul can take. And I am a very empathetic person. And so it definitely drained me. There's no other way around it. It drained me mentally, physically. It drained my soul. Just having to lose a patient. I lost a patient probably my fifth week into being a new grad nurse. And I can't tell you how much I cried over that. And it still brings tears to my eyes right now. I'm just trying to hold it back. But there's nothing like losing a patient that teaches you just how fleeting life is. And just how much you really have to like gather life with both hands and hold on to it. And tell your loved ones that you love them. and be in the present, the here and now. And so making the decision to leave the ICU is probably one of the hardest things I've done because I loved being there for my patients. I loved being there for the parents. A huge part of pediatric care that a lot of people are afraid of is because you have to deal with the family because you're not just dealing with the patient, right? They're under 18 most of the times. So you have to really deal with the parents' emotions and the families and what they want. But I think that's one of the gifts of pediatric care It's because you get to know them as a whole. You get to know the family more than just them being a patient. You get to know what they like and what they dislike and what they get to do when they're not stuck in the hospital. And so leaving that was really hard. But at the end of the day, I really had to do it for my mental sanity. As someone who deals with a chronic illness at home, I was realizing that I was letting parts of myself fall to the back burner. And I wasn't prioritizing my own mental and physical sanity. And I needed to be able in the long run to take care of others, I have to fill my own cup. And I've been very, very vocal about that. But I wasn't doing that. And so I knew that eventually that would catch up with me. So I had to step away from probably my biggest passion is ICU care, pediatric ICU care. And who knows what the future will bring. And maybe I can use what I've learned to go back into a field like that. But for where I was and where I am right now, I had to step away from that.

[00:11:51] Rob Howe: I think that's a big part of recognizing who you are and how also things change. And like you said, a big calling wasn't sustainable for you, even though it was like, you're very passionate about it. And I think having that recognition takes a lot of maturity as well. And I think there's such a weird stigma around quitting things or changing things, like, you know, especially when you involve people externally, they don't understand or they're curious. And sometimes that comes across as abrasive. But we had a conversation because we got to all meet IRL in 2023 at the ADA scientific sessions. And just talking about that, it was just very clear, knowing you, being around you for a long time via the internet, very clearly when you changed and made your adjustment to your career, how that reflected back into your life and kind of brought you back from, you know, this very, you know, high tension, high stress, high, you know, stakes, because this is, you know, the beginnings and the ends are, you know, are in the ICU, right. Of, of a lot of, you know, life. And so shifting and like, you know, getting now to where you're working as, you know, at a clinic for people with diabetes and endocrinology, or I guess the opposite, you know, endocrinology clinic and people with diabetes, Like now, like how, how is your life with diabetes and just your relationship to diabetes in general changed as, as a result of your career shift?

[00:13:20] Basma Adams: I think there's a huge stigma in nursing. And this goes out to anyone that's listening that has diabetes and is in nursing that you can't quit your first job, right? You've got to be in the long haul for at least five to 10 years. And I experienced that firsthand. But what I want people to know is that there's so much you can do in nursing to be at the forefront and to walk and hold someone's hand and walk them through their healthcare journey. And so what I realized is my passion has always stemmed from diabetes and my personal experiences and things that my parents have been through. And I always knew that at some point in my life, I would go into diabetes, whether, you know, long term, long term or short term. And I, and I remember just sitting and thinking to myself and talking with my family, why don't I just make that jump? I've wanted to do this for so long. And I've been in the diabetes space in other ways, why don't I translate that to nursing? It's changed a lot of my outlook and it's changed the way I deal with my own diabetes care. I know a lot on the healthcare front when it comes to like policies and procedures that now I know why your endocrinologist can't tell you this or why your diabetes nurse can't really tell you, you know, the details for this. Like I understand that, but I take the two and I merge them together. And as someone with diabetes, I try to find that happy medium, that happy spot where I let patients know there's not a one way to do this. You're not going to exactly have to follow the rules as your endocrinologist gives it to you because through trial and error, you're going to find out what works best for you. And so I think I have that gift in being able to merge my two worlds together, my education, but also my lived experiences. And to me, I've found myself the happiest being able to do that. So I think a lot of life decisions had to come kind of boiling at the top of the volcano for me to finally realize, like, it's okay for me to take this step. And if it doesn't work out, that's fine, too. But why don't I at least try to figure that out?

[00:15:24] Rob Howe: You succinctly said that so well. And I want to touch on a couple of different things because there's so much that we could, like, follow just from that one soundbite. But the first thing is you talked about there's a stigma in healthcare about quitting your first job. I would apply that outside of even just healthcare. I think that there is a, everybody has opinions on like what you should do with your career. As somebody who has not followed a traditional career path. And like, I would just say that like nobody has it figured out and there is no one way to do something. Now, there are exceptions. Certainly, if you want to be a doctor, you're gonna have to go to med school. You're gonna have to do all that stuff. Like there's like, there's a path for that. If you want to be a consultant, like, you know, you're going to follow the traditional path. Like there are absolutely pathways and sort of best practices. However, if you don't fit with those or they don't vibe for you or you're not interested in them, I would encourage people to just like listen to that intuition. And that neatly comes to my next question, which is you said something that I said. And so I want to dig into this a little bit, which is you said you always knew. And then you talked about how you would work in some sort of diabetes care, whether long term or short term. I want to say that I also early on in my life, always knew that there was going to be some point where my lifestyle and diet choices, I would have to really dial them in because of diabetes. And so what I'm calling this concept right now is called chronic intuition. and where you say, cause you, you said it like, so it just sounded so much like it really fired off like a nerve in my brain. Like, cause I said, I, I always knew that eventually I was going to have to really change the way that I lived in and was eating and working out and all that. And, and I was like, you know, I don't, I don't know when that's going to happen. And I just found myself a couple of weeks ago. Like I, I did that. It didn't happen all at once. It happened gradually, but I'm doing that. And I'm already like, and I always knew that would happen. And that always new phrase kind of came back for me when you were talking about that, because there is this sort of weird diabetes intuition. And if you are empathetic, or you like are curious about your own self, like it makes sense that you your life has led you to this care for other people with diabetes. And it's just it's it was so fascinating for me, we always knew when you say always knew. So tell me about like how when you're making those decisions, when you're 17 to like go to college and start to, you know, take a pre-med or a nursing pathway, like, was that something you always knew?

[00:17:55] Basma Adams: Always knew for me is back when I was five years old and my kindergarten, my mom was volunteering and my kindergarten teacher was going around and asking us what we wanted to be when we grew up. And at five, I said, I think I specifically said, I want to be a doctor so I can help other people. Because obviously when you're five, you only think that you can help people by being a doctor, which obviously you do.

[00:18:17] Rob Howe: But as a five-year-old, you're just not quite as like, you're not quite as in tune with all the

[00:18:23] Basma Adams: infrastructure, all the roles. Absolutely. As a five-year-old, I don't think we would know all of that. But I looked at my kindergarten teacher and I said, I want to be a doctor because I want to help other people feel better. That feel better was always something that I carried on with me. As I became 10 and I started getting into advocacy, it was because I wanted other people to feel better about their diabetes. When I got into high school and I started volunteering, it was because I wanted other people to feel better about where they stood with their healthcare choices. When I became a nurse, it was because I wanted other people to feel better through their bad days and their good days. And so I've quite literally always known that I wanted to go into healthcare. What it is specifically that I wanted to do has always ebbed and flowed as anyone does. I mean, you're not expected to know what you want to do at 17. And it shocks me that we still expect 17 and 18 year olds to know what they want to do with their life.

[00:19:21] Rob Howe: We talk about this all the time. Turn it off. Yeah, don't even get me rolling.

[00:19:28] Basma Adams: But truly, like, especially when it comes to, especially when it comes to roles like these, right, like healthcare workers, just being able to look at your life timeline and be like, yep, this is what I'm going to do. And for the next 10 to 15 years, I will be in school and expecting people not to change their mind, right? But for me, and I thank God that I always knew what I wanted to do because I can't imagine not knowing what my passion is. It's always been to help people. So I've never wavered from that. It's never been a thought in my mind, like, is this really for me? I think when I have had those moments, like I was saying before during COVID, it was just whether this was the right time. and this is this the right time has always you know that's always a question we all have in our mind is this the right time for me to be doing this is this the right time for me to be moving out of the pick you is this the right time for me to moving into diabetes but I always say there's no time like the present and I would rather try something and end up falling and getting back up again than never trying ever at all and regretting that one day I this is so interesting to me because

[00:20:33] Eritrea: both of you guys mentioned how you like intuitively have these like diabetes kind of linked thoughts about your future but I I wonder if it's just really because both of you strike me as people who really know yourselves especially like Basma you like from five years old you knew yourself robbing yourself a lot of us I think maybe struggle with that and not really knowing who you are or where you're going to end up and I think you can apply this thought process to so many things like I think about my own career and it's like when I was when I was five Basma I told people that I wanted to be on CNN like I wanted to be the broadcaster who did the news and somehow I ended up working somewhere that does diabetes news and I have a podcast so it's like sometimes maybe the universe works out but also you just have to know yourself and like what you're good at and one of your best qualities having the most one of the most empathetic hearts like you're one of the most empathetic people I've ever met in my life Basma so I just think it's interesting like You just ended up where you're exactly where you're supposed to be all the time. And I truly believe that for everyone. But it is beautiful to hear someone else have gone through the whole journey. It's just nice to hear it. It also takes courage to listen to your own voice. Yeah. And I think trusting that too takes a lot of practice. Some people, I think, innately have it maybe more than others or it's a product of their upbringing. But for me, I have to credit my parents for that. I think they just, they believed what I, when I said things and they, you know, made it really clear that it mattered how I talked to myself and it mattered what I, you know, what I said I was going to do. And I think giving that, like assigning that weight, like, Hey, what you like, and also valuing what people say, even when they're young, or even when they're like, you know, saying silly or flippant things is like, you know, your word is, is your word there. And I think learning and getting familiar with your own voice is, you know, I'm on a podcast. That's my podcast. So it's like, yeah, you got to talk, but like getting familiar, hearing yourself say things because like thoughts become words, words become actions, like all of those things. And the way that we talk to ourselves, I think there's a common, you know, whatever Pinterest graphic therapy coded. That's like, you know, if you catch yourself talking to yourself a certain way, like ask yourself, would you speak to a friend that way? And I think too often many of us, dismiss our own voice as not part of ourselves or it's like oh even though i'm saying it and i feel it it's not right for me or it's not real i think that getting coming to terms with the power of your own voice and being able to sit with that is just a really important part of of growing as a person but you said something so important just now rob where you're like my parents empowered me and that i'm looking at you bosma because i want to talk about this today for a second but i want let's talk about mama and baba for just a minute. Cause I feel like you and I've had lots of and we'll get back. I promise listeners to endocrinology and pediatrics, but you and I've had a lot of conversations about being sometimes a white passing person in the space when you're so cultural. So I do wonder like with such a cultural family, did they help flourish you in that way? Like when you said the things that you wanted to say, like, were your parents like, yes. And what can we do to help? Like, tell me more, tell the listeners more a little bit about your background and your parents because I think it's a good idea to honor them today. Absolutely. I actually want,

[00:23:56] Basma Adams: I was hoping we would go in that direction. So thanks, E. My parents are amazing. Mom and Bubba are my whole world. I think they come from, their upbringing, right? And just the time that they lived in and they grew up in was different than ours. I mean, you could say now, you can say you want to be legit anything ever and everybody's going to take you seriously, right? And back then And it just, it was different. And so my parents are my best friends and I'm going to try not to get emotional, but my mom is definitely like, she's like my other, my other piece of my heart. And she has always made it a safe space for me forever and ever to say anything, to vent about anything. There was never a topic that was off topics and I could truly just spill my heart out to her. And so she and I have always had that relationship, same with my dad, but obviously as a girl, I just, as I've gotten older, I started out as a daddy's girl. And now that I've gotten older, I just relate to my mom more because now I'm a woman and now I can relate to things that she's been through. But growing up, I could be anything and everything that I wanted. And as a five-year-old saying I wanted to be a doctor and I wanted to go into healthcare, there was never a doubt in their mind that I wouldn't do it. And I think that's so important because as a child, I always knew that I could put my mind to it. And whenever I had a wavering thought that I couldn't do it, they were there to reiterate that I could do it and I will do it and I will get to where I want to see myself. And I think that is so important because I have had friends and colleagues and people that I've worked with who didn't have that upbringing. right? And I think that really, really does matter. If you're a parent out there and you're listening to this, just lean into what your kids say and give them that confidence. Because when I didn't find the confidence in myself, I could find it in my parents. And that's what kept me going through all of those times where I doubted myself the most. So as a white passing person, I have never really fit in, right? I'm never white enough. And I'm never cultural enough. And E, you and I have had these conversations and I've always told you that I've struggled with them so much because I never really know how to articulate them. As someone who prides herself in being able to articulate things, this is one of the things that, you know, you grow up being told so many different things and having so many different opinions. And so it's hard. And becoming an adult, I feel like I found myself in that realm and who I identify myself with culturally more in the past few years since becoming an adult than I ever did in my entire life. I've been called some horrible names and I've been told to go back home, even though literally born and raised here, right? So we've all experienced that. But if I can name the people that have kept me steadfast in my beliefs and in my confidence and, as Rob said, learning to be okay with my own voice, it would be my mom and dad and I have them to thank the world for I would not be here without them I wouldn't amount to anything without them and I truly truly mean that because although I'm putting in the work you always need a voice you always need a fire to keep you going and they have been my fire

[00:27:18] Rob Howe: and so I'm thankful for that oh I I'm gonna start crying it's okay I already cried no I want to I want to I want to I want to touch on one thing before we move on because you said something that I want to challenge is I don't think everybody ever, I don't think everybody feels that way. And so in terms of like not knowing where they belong. And so I think it's unique to you and you as well, Eritrea. But, you know, when I talk to people as sort of the weird, sometimes mouth, like Eritrea and I were talking about this on the most recent episode of the Robin Eritrea show, I got to be this strangely, this weird mouthpiece of like explaining white privilege to white people. And in a way, like you just nailed it is like, I, anywhere I go, any building I walk in, people just assume that I belong there. And, you know, most of the time, you know, there's the, there's the other ones like, what is this white boy doing in here? There's a couple of those, but I do like, I think that that really cements it is like, you know, not understanding where you belong, being accepted sometimes or partially accepted or accepted to a point where, you know, Hey, you know, you're, you're white passing enough or whatever the case may be. But I don't think that that's an experience that everybody has. And so I think it's important to highlight it because I know that it can sometimes diabetes, it can be that way for people. But for the most part, like a lot of our, you know, people who are just white people in America, you don't, no one's ever said, Hey, go back home. You know, that's not a, that's not a common thing. So I think it's important to highlight. And as we learn about other people's experiences, people who, you know, that's probably not the first in the top 50 things people would think about you as they look at you or follow you or interact with you. That's the whole point. But it still happens. And it's part of your story. It's also where you're at, right? Like Basma's in San Diego. She grew up in San Diego, California, surrounded by other white people. I've said this before, the diabetes, I'm like, San Diego, also a pretty diverse place. It can be. But also the diaries online community, just like for me personally, I've said this in the past, can sometimes not be a safe place for a person of color. And if you're able to assimilate, sometimes it's easier. And so I said that in our intro, like when I first met Basma and found her profile, like I just wasn't sure. Because like I myself have struggled with identity. There have been years of my life where I tried really hard to be white. This melanin is not going anywhere. so it's like I I I saw thank you I love you I saw a piece of myself and so like while we have this conversation I feel Basma's pain and I also feel her like catharticism to just be able to let it out that like yes I am a person of color like you can't accept me it is okay and also I love that about Basma like your ability to explain things to people in a nice way that I would not be able too, because you've somehow found a way to cushion it for them. So I appreciate you. And I, and I also see your journey and I also see your struggle to really like come into your own as a, as a person of color. Like you recently went to Morocco and I was like, this is the Basma I want to see. Like the girl who's like so enriched in who she is, man, now I'm going to cry, but it's just beautiful to see someone really like step into their power and be like, this is who I am. And I'm okay with that. And you guys can be okay with it too or not.

[00:30:42] Basma Adams: I think it's important to note because I've always wanted to say this publicly. So I'm going to take this chance to say it on here. I've always been proud of where I come from and my heritage. I'm a proud Moroccan through and through. There's not a day that I haven't been. But I, since coming onto social media and being in such a public platform, whether, you know, my audience is a couple thousand or a couple million, I, through the years, have learned to shy myself. And Rob, I think we were talking about this when we were in real life. I think you said something about like, somewhere we were talking, maybe it was online, maybe in real life. But you're like, oh, you're actually like, funny, or you're actually sarcastic. Like, I want to see more of that sarcasm. And I remember telling you, I've learned to shy that away on social media. I've learned to dim myself a little bit. And so I don't share so much about me, even though it looks like I share so much about my life there is part of my heritage and my background that I have learned to keep off of social media because it gets judged and it gets judged so quickly and I have learned to protect my peace in that sense and I've learned to protect my loved ones because of that because I don't I truly don't care what other people think but I also don't need people coming and attacking me and so I will get attacked either way that I'm not proud or that I am too proud, I want to stay. I have never been more proud to be where I'm from. But growing up and being through some of the things that I've been through, I've just learned, you know what, sometimes it's better and sometimes it's safer and sometimes it's nicer to not have to subject myself to those thoughts. But E, Eritrea, has always been someone that just reminds me of how beautiful it is to share where we come from and how beautiful it is to put that out there and share it with the world. And so that's why I said I've become more strong and more really like with my person, with myself, with my background, my heritage the past few years, because I've realized life is so fleeting. So why don't I share this joy with other people? And the people that like it, amazing. The people that don't like it, the unfollow button is literally right there. Like I can't apologize for being myself and I don't want to anymore. and so this new era of myself is really trying to be unapologetically myself but in ways that I've that I've been hiding before and so E you've seen me I mean I went to Morocco and I shared all of it and everything and I wanted to because I felt myself aching to share that because there were so many people that thought I was just this white girl this white chick and I get it all the time and my dad is super super white looking and so I that's where I get it from because everybody thinks he's just this like white midwestern guy but I wanted to share that I wanted to share my life and and the good and the bad that comes with it but it's been it's been a struggle and it's been a challenge and people like E who have made who have paved the way for being unapologetic and so even though I may not be as mean sounding as Eritrea I do try to emulate that and try to be

[00:33:54] Rob Howe: unapologetically myself in that way you're so sweet no I and I also think that it's important that you have found a way to tie it back to your culture like with diabetes because like your content is diabetes focused and so like I think it was last year that you threw your anniversary and it was Moroccan themed and I I my heart soared like your mom made this like from scratch like in the special like the Moroccan like the glass yeah the tajin and like you guys had all like the decorations and you had David there, shout out type 1, the diabetic who used to do pod with you. And it was like this, yeah, it was just like such an, and also the guy who did the shout out to him for doing the graphics for my book with Syrah. But like, it was just such an incredible celebration of your diabetes that was intermixed with your culture. And I was like, I was just so proud of you. I know you've always been a proud Moroccan and with me, you've always been yourself, but I was just so proud of you to see you really step into that. And it was awesome to watch. And I can't see, wait to see what other cultural stuff we get to see from you because Morocco is dope. Y'all are missing out.

[00:34:56] Basma Adams: Truly, truly is. Everyone's missing out there.

[00:34:59] Rob Howe: So I wanted to dig back a little bit because just to continue the conversation about you now showing up as yourself with your background and diabetes as part of your story as well. And now working with, I'm calling them young basmas, you know, people who are coming in like kids, teens, young adults with diabetes and their families and parents and caregivers. What's it like to be in that position now? Do you think about the good, the bad experiences that you had when you were young and impart those to your patients now?

[00:35:32] Basma Adams: there is no way you can't think you cannot think about it I think about young boss as a type 1 diabetic every single day that I go into work and it's with good reason right I keep her in the back of my mind because she is what reminds me of how to tweak you know my education appointments or my dexcom placements or she helps me tweak the things that you know policy and procedure tells you to say into, well, what would a young boss wanted to hear? What would her parents have wanted to hear? And so I have spent countless triage telephone calls, where I go above and beyond. And I'm on the phone longer than I should be. Because I'm really trying to impart, hey, like, I really want you to take care of yourself. Let's, let's lay the foundation blocks. You know, I get that you haven't been doing this, or you haven't been doing this, let's start with this. Let's just do baby steps. And I always preface it by letting them know, hey, I've been through your shoes, because I don't ever want someone to think that as a healthcare provider, I'm telling you what to do, because I'm not. I'm not telling you what you need to do. I'm telling you what I've been through and what I wanted to hear. And so I think it comes if it when it comes from a place of love like that, and a place of experience, it's a completely different ballpark, right? And you're less likely to get defensive because I used to get defensive as a 17 year old when my doctor was telling me to get on a pump. And now, right, like I got defensive. And so I think it changes the game when you are, when you show up not as a healthcare worker, but as a person with experience with your patients. Because yeah, I have that degree behind my name, but that's not what's, that's not what's

[00:37:16] Rob Howe: allowing me to connect with you. You know, it wasn't until I got involved in diabetes content and the online community before I met a diabetes caregiver, practitioner, healthcare worker who lived with type 1 or type 2 or anything. Yeah. Yeah. And it was, it was so different, you know? And so like, until you experience that, like you and people, I'm sure patients of yours don't even realize how lucky they are to have somebody with that perspective, but it makes a huge difference knowing where someone's coming from. And we've all experienced it. Those of us who've met other people or gone to meetups or gone to events. I know you used to be and may still be more heavily involved in the San Diego meetups. The San Diego type 1 online community is honestly one of the longest standing, I feel like, in the country. You have people, even from previous diabetes online bloggers and such from before our time who are from the San Diego area, there's a heavy presence of MedTech and some of the big brands are down there in Southern California. And so that's a big component of it as well. But you mentioned something about, you know, knowing where you're coming from, like allowing it's, you know, you have the, you have the degree, you have the background, you have the clinical, you know, part of it, but you want your patients to like, you know, see you as a person with diabetes as well. And so I want to ask the question for like, for those people, because most of our audience is patients. What do patients need to know about the people who are giving them care? Like even out, just like not seeing them as nurses or endos or doctors or whatever, not that endos aren't doctors. What do we need to know about our caregivers? Like, cause I know that they're, the experiences run like a wide range. Like some people have great experiences. Some people have really, really bad ones. And then most are probably right in the middle. So like, what do we need to know about our caregivers and, you know, what kind of goes on behind the scenes?

[00:39:14] Basma Adams: That your healthcare provider, whether they're a provider, a nurse, a PA, an NP, we truly want the best for you. Like first and foremost, we really truly want you to be able to take care of yourself and that longevity of care, right? We want the best diabetes management for you, first and foremost. And I think that can, that can be blurred, right? The lines can be blurred because you're, you're thinking, they're just a healthcare provider, you know, they're just supposed to be telling me these things. At least as I have been able to see it from the other, the other end right now that I actually work in this space, I see how much work goes into carefully cultivating a management plan that truly works for the patient, right? This patient, you know, does these sports and has these extracurricular activities and, you know, is at school from this time to this time, Maybe we need to look at a pump management that we can set up different profiles. Or, you know, this child is really like needle phobic. So let's try to see if we can do education appointments that are more frequent, right? Shorter in time, but more frequent to try to get them over that hurdle. So it's, and this is especially goes to clinic, right? Outpatient clinic nursing for me. you're able to take more time into cultivating these relationships with your patients. And I think that's what I love so much about what I get to do now. But it's just important to note that like your healthcare providers truly want the best for you. And it's not just policy and procedure.

[00:40:52] Rob Howe: There's a lot of care and thought that goes into it. I think you really just touched a really good point for me, something that like always comes to mind. My first experiences with the healthcare system as an adult were time-based. Like I just felt like I was patient 12 out of 80 and I, it was like get in, get out, get in, get out, like a volume game and the time spent. And I think that's what's difficult for, you know, and I can't speak for all the other difficulties because I don't always know them, but there's only 8,000 endocrinologists in the United States, 8,000. And we've all seen the numbers about how many people live with diabetes and endocrinologists shop shocker to everybody, big reveal, they handle more than just diabetes. So that's a lot of patients to cover for a small group. And so unfortunately that feedback loop comes to like more patients, fewer endocrinologists, less time, like got to do more volume. And unfortunately those patients don't get the time that they need because what really made a difference for me. and I know that many, you know, sometimes cash pay, you know, practices, they run, they, they see two or three patients a day because they know it takes that amount of time to spend to really help someone navigate how difficult and complex diabetes can be. So, you know, when you were, when you're talking about spending that time, that quality time, not only with your healthcare provider, but also somebody who knows intimately the details of a life with diabetes, that makes a huge, huge difference. So thank you for, for obviously like being aware of that and, and for, for prioritizing your patients there. I do want to talk, you mentioned earlier about being an empath and like really connecting and, you know, getting attached to your patients and wanting better things for them. I want to talk about finding balance as a healthcare worker, as a person with diabetes, as a content creator. And then you mentioned earlier about kind of protecting your piece and not sharing everything, but also just the person outside of those things, because it can be a lot. And you've been, I think, very vulnerable about sharing your journey through

[00:42:58] Basma Adams: that as well. Yeah. Something that I learned very quickly when I was working in the pediatric ICU was self-care goes beyond the bougie, silly view that I'm trying to put this into like succinctly into how I want to, how I want to word it. But basically it goes beyond what you see on TikTok or Instagram reels, right? It goes beyond just like pouring a cute little bubbly drink into a glass and sitting down on your bed and yay, all my stigmas and PTSD and traumas are just gone. I learned very quickly that I had to learn what worked best for me. Because when I used to come home from a 12 hour shift, just having lost a patient, the last thing I wanted to do was pour myself a cute little bubbly drink and sit on my bed and pretend like all my worries didn't exist, Right. And so everybody's self-care looks different. And I've been very vocal about this. Finding what works for you is so important. And how to do that is through trial and error. But I've learned now as I'm into my second year of nursing that it's OK for what used to work to change in the future. And being OK with that has has not always been easy. Right. Because once I find something that works, being a type A person, I'm like, this is what works and this is what needs to work continuously. so being okay with the evolving evolving of times and evolving who I am as a person is really important to me so I've learned that self-care is important I've learned that leaning on your support group is super important finding a few people it doesn't have to be a huge circle right you don't have to have a huge network but having three four two people that you truly can rely on and sending them a text or setting up a FaceTime call or seeing them over a cup of coffee to feel grounded again. Because spending your life, as I do as a healthcare worker, right, 40 hours a week, 36 to 40 hours a week, inside a healthcare clinic, hospital, whatever, talking to patients, talking about a chronic illness that I also now live with, right, because now I'm in diabetes care, that I go home, then I have to continue to take care of myself on said subject that I was was talking to a patient 12 hours ago about that can take a lot out of you mentally so I try to separate the two I try to remind myself to give myself grace because what I am teaching in clinic may be different than what I'm dealing with at home that's probably the third biggest thing that I've learned is to not hold myself to the same expectations because now that I am a diabetes and endo nurse, I do feel like I do feel I am more on top of my diabetes if we're being completely honest. But I also feel like my standards have surmounted because of that, because I'm dealing with it and I'm working with it. And I know how to better my diabetes management and control it using the tools that I've learned at work. So I should be able to do that 24 seven. But we're humans and we're humans who make mistakes and we're humans who have bad days and good days. so all of those things that I just listed self-care having a support group giving yourself grace remembering that things can change and you have good days and bad days those are all those have all been instrumental in like finding a happy place for me as a provide a health care provider a person living with diabetes a content creator knowing that I don't always have to create content surrounding diabetes that that's all been something that I've been working on it's a lot

[00:46:28] Rob Howe: It just, it's also sounds like the ingredients to, if not well managed equals lots of diabetes, distress, burnout. Distress, burnout. So, wow. It's a lot of balls in the air. You know, I was just thinking of those dumb TikTok videos where it's like, we're humans. Of course, we're going to get burned out after we overinvest time. It's like, of course, we're humans. Of course, we're going to overthink something. You just, it was like, how many things, how many of us have not been in that situation? How relatable is that? And I think with diabetes, especially something you touched on is finding that small group of people who you can share things with. And I know you mentioned him earlier, but your friend, David, our friend, David, I know is a big part of that for you and like that community of people. And like, I think it's so important to have the IRL or offline conversations where you can show up as yourself and you don't have to be all of the things you mentioned, healthcare worker, type 1 diabetic content creator, all those things. You can just kind of level with that person and share that struggle with them.

[00:47:30] Basma Adams: Absolutely. I think my close friends, especially, and I want to give a shout out to the friends that don't have diabetes, right? They may not always know how specifically we want them to show up for us, right? But they learn, right? And so my friends that don't have diabetes are just as important to me. And I know that I can vent to them. they're usually the people that I'll vent to and they have nothing to say back because they don't know that I can you know decrease the alarms on my Dexcom or that I can add them to the follow app they're they're not going to think of that right right off the bat as someone with diabetes is and sometimes that is the best advantage right I don't need you to tell me what to do with my diabetes I just need you to listen and tell me that yes I am correct for wanting to scream and

[00:48:16] Rob Howe: cry and like how important is that you know just to have a little bit of relatability to be seen as yourself to say, hey, this is hard. And yeah, we're not going to try to just fix it. I'm going to have space for you to really be going through what you're going through. And I also have been there. Not to be like Ariana Grande, but yes, and. Okay, I'm not on her train, but it's just very, it's like yes, and. I don't care. You know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely. Yes, and. Well, Baz, I cannot imagine how different two interviews might be on this podcast. And that I think it says two things. One, you have grown into this person who is truly amazing and I'm very proud to know you and have been a part of that for a long time now. But also we've been doing this podcast for way longer than I think I ever anticipated. It's so refreshing to be able to reconnect on the pod, online. We got the video going this time where I think some of the episodes that we have coming up, yourself included, I was using like this crazy bootleg software and Skype and like GarageBand for like all these different episodes. And to see somebody from that time and then reconnect with them again, I'm excited to go back and listen to the first episode when this goes live as well, just to really reconnect with where this all started. And very proud of you and proud to know you. And looking forward to continue to following along with all the things that you have going. And I know you're going to help a ton of people with diabetes, both patients and parents and caregivers because of your experience and the person that you are.

[00:49:54] Basma Adams: Thank you. I cannot wait to go back and re-listen to my episode to really get my mindset in the right place. But thank you for having me, both of you, obviously, again, and allowing me to continue to share my story. But I just I wish I could have given 19 year old Bosna a big, big, like strong hug and just be like, just wait for the ride that you are in. Because it'll be a good one. Lots of highs and lows. But I'm extremely proud of her for just holding on for dear life and letting life take her because here it is now. So I'm excited to continue to share because I don't know what tomorrow will bring and where I'll be, you know, whether that be my career or the online diabetes space. And I'm continuously trying to refine myself and push myself to better and higher limits. And I think that if I can say anything to anyone who's listening is don't be afraid of change. Don't be afraid of continuously trying to do something different. I think my generation is so well equipped to be like doing 5 million things all at once and having side hustles and side hobbies and side gigs and things like that. But I'm thankful for it because I think we just continuously try to find new versions of ourselves that make ourselves happy. So I'm excited to continue to share that with everyone.

[00:51:16] Rob Howe: And we're excited to keep watching. I mean, watching your journey online has been great. This has been an incredible episode. Thank you so much for being here. For our listeners, if you enjoyed this episode with Basma, I really want you guys to check out some of our incredible library episodes with other creators who are also healthcare professionals. Dawn Adams, no relation to Basma, but you guys should meet. She's really great. Mohamed Sayan's episode and Dr. Roy Collins. We'll be sure to link those for you guys in the show notes. But yeah, shout out to all our diabetics who are working in healthcare and are, you know, living in such hard times but still doing the work. Thank you for being you, Basma. You're great. Oh, thank you, guys. Okay, give it to me. Okay, so this is normally our mailbag segment, but in our recent recording with Basma, you said something at the beginning of this episode that stuck with me. and I wanted to hear more about because I don't think we've talked about it a lot recently. Okay. And you said that someone told you about the diabetes online community that it wasn't a welcome space. And this is so I'm not sure when this conversation happened. Probably you came back like back with a vengeance on the internet scene at the end of 2019, beginning of 2020, I would say probably. Does that timeline sound right? Yeah, kind of. I made a post randomly in 2019. And then in 2020, I fully leaned in. But yeah. Yeah, yeah. So we don't talk about that a lot because it's always like, hey, come and join the community. Raise your hand. Share your story. But back to the, you know, it's Black History Month. We've talked a lot about in this podcast about stigma. We're rerunning and re-releasing the More Than a Diabetic series to continue those conversations about inequities in healthcare. And so I want to talk about that component of hearing from someone else who I assume is a person of color, that this space is not always a welcome space. And what is coming with people who are joining this community and what it may be we as sort of the people who've been in the community for a while who are either white presenting or white people don't necessarily always see. so I I'm gonna I'm gonna just say that my membership was not filed until like late 2020 right like I was a person living with diabetes who was just like existing on her own and then I put that post out there like about the bag like I remember my first diabetes post ever was like this clear makeup bag that I used to carry around with me everywhere there was just like all my stuff and this girl found my account and she was really nice to me at first she's an African American girl. And she told me, which is really interesting because she's also the person who kind of wrongs me in the story. But she told me she was like, welcome to the space. She's not a big creator either, like small creator. And was like, just be careful out here because some people will like say one thing to your face and then do other things. I've never been like that. So I move in my life just like an honest manner. Like I just say what I feel and think what I say. And also, you know me, like, if I don't like you, you can see it on my face. Like, that's just how I am. so I remember that I started a fundraiser it was like shortly after I joined Diabetics Doing Things and became a full-fledged member of the DOC and I started a fundraiser so that I could take supplies like overseas and I was like oh this will be a good idea or whatever and before that fundraiser I had met Serene and they the Beirut blast had just happened so it was like literally like my my first week of kind of working at Diabetics Doing Things so it was like my first big project and my second, whatever. And I was trying to figure out how to get supplies from the United States into Lebanon, which is really not that difficult. If you know people who are going, or if you have the connections, gosh, my voice is shaking because I haven't told the story in a long time. And there was a Twitter thread called Insulin for All. And I had gotten help through that thread before. I'll give a shout out to Laura Marston. I think about her all the time because there was times I couldn't afford insulin and she would mail it to me. So the community was like kind to me. And so I was like, well, maybe they'll help me get the insulin to Lebanon. And so I like to ask on Twitter and then someone put me in a discord and I was like, okay. So, and I don't know very much about discord. So I was like trying to figure out how to like get these supplies shipped. And I remember like asking for the help and like, blah, blah, blah. And then she takes me out of the group like randomly one day. And I was like, oh no, like, did I do something wrong? Like what happened? And then she sent me a weird message on Twitter with a screenshot that was like, I saw that you were talking shit about me when all I said was like, I didn't like her content or something like that. And you did it with this person. And like, I know about it. And because I'm in charge of this Discord, like basically I'm kicking you out and we'll help the people in Lebanon, but we don't need your help. So go away. And I had never felt like, no, I felt rejected before from spaces, but I had never felt so like gate kept out of helping my own people by a white woman. Like it was just so weird. And then to know that that screenshot was later sent by an African-American woman to her, like it just felt very high school, very dramatic, very like, why is this happening? If my only goal here is to get insulin out. If I have a problem with you, I'm telling you, but if you and I have problems, what does that have to do with getting insulin to another country full of people of color and you, a white person and is going to gatekeep me out of it. So I think that was like my first instance where I really felt I'm also privileged in being a light-skinned African-American girl. So like I'm very consumable to white people. Like when you look at me, I am the mixed race light-skinned girl. So that's not something that I run into all the time. So when I, somebody did push me out, not just because of my race, but because of my connection to Lebanon, because how they felt for me, who cares why they pushed me out at the end of it the way I felt was this person holds power and they are using it to keep me from helping the people that I care and love about like love and I think that was the very first time that I'd ever felt like kind of like wow maybe this isn't a safe place all the time and then like slowly other things happened right because like 2021 was the same year I think it was 21 or 2020 was the same year that the JDRF thing happened with like Black History Month and like there was just all these little instances of not micro but full-on macro aggressions towards black people or people of color and I just was like this is not just disgusting it's hard for me to stomach like to sit here and be like we're all the same kind of disabled so it's just hard to deal with at the time I've moved past it I wish that person the best honestly even if you and I personally don't like each other if the end goal is to help other people with diabetes then I'm gonna rock with you all day. It doesn't matter what you said about me. So I don't know. I think that's something I also said when everything was happening with Palestine on my stories. I think I let you guys know. I was like, this is not a safe place for people who look like me. And it does feel like that all the time. And I'll finish it like this. Right now, there's a Spare a Rose campaign that's going on. And when the people of Palestine were asking for a Spare a Rose campaign for them, they were ignored by the diabetic online community. But when Ukraine needed one, we did it for Ukraine because we only care about white refugees. We don't care about black, indigenous people of color, even if they are dying for insulin. And that's hard. It's hard for me to be part of a community that seems to inherently reject me. That was really well said. Period. I think there's two things that I'll add. Number one, 2020, I think so many people were chronically online and there was just this really bad vibe. And I think it was a lot, a lot of it was because the vibes were off in the real world too. It was terrible. And you know, that was also like a time where I was just getting to know you and work with you as well. So that was, it was all new, but I didn't want to move past that comment because I think it's important for future people of color, people who are different than your generic diabetes online community member, not that there's anything wrong with them. It's just, it's not the same for everyone. And so it's important for us to address that. And I also think progress has been made in some cases, but to your point about Palestine versus Ukraine and the way that black and brown people are treated and the narrative in the media about refugees from Mexico and Central America are treated. It is really, you know, you start putting your tinfoil hat on really quick because you're like, oh, is mainstream media really telling us the truth about any of this at all? And you start to sound crazy. But at the same time, like they, a thing that I've been thinking about recently is they don't want us to be advocates. Oh yeah. And I think they, you know, you can use metaphorical they as I did is like powers that be do not want you to dig into places where there's inequity. They do not. They want you to bury it. They want you to move on. You have other responsibilities. You have other things going on. It's not important. This is not about you. You know, keep moving, moving, moving. And unfortunately, that is a really, really, really bad habit and a really, really bad loop and format and formula. And the only way we can break it, though, is with people like me in Basma and I think that's my that's the only thing I will say is that you can push me out of spaces that's fine bitch I'm gonna make my own spaces and that's what I did so like ultimately and this is something we talked about in the last episode of Robin or Treya show but like I've learned that resilience is a genetic trait and I you are never gonna hold A or Treya at Musa down even if I have to flip burgers on the corner so it's like my advocacy is always going to come through and I hope for people that do join the space and are people of color they can find diabetics doing things they can find my work over at diatribe they can find me and i'm willing to be the person there to be like do not give up and this is why because we need more people like me and there are people like me tiana drew keisha carter roy collins like we are out here doing the work in the spaces to create whatever equality we can even if it's not there yet right and i won't even get it to pay gaps between creators of color between you know what I mean, because it is just so insane out here. But I think that specifically, even the work that we're doing here at Diabetics, doing things all the time, like we're trying our best to create a space that is inclusive of everyone. And I think that's all we can do. And I'm proud of us for continuing to do that. Same. Yeah. Mic drop. Yeah, it's good. I'm glad that we have this conversation. I wanted to tap in on it. I wanted to hear from you. So next time, we'll actually do a mailbag, but this is important because I want to make sure that during Black History Month, we're continuing to highlight that not everybody's experience is the same as mine or even our guests. So thank you guys for the time. See you next time.