Lissie Poyner, T1D, Diabetes Health Coach, CPT, Creator of Needles and Spoons

[00:00:01] Rob Howe: Welcome back to another episode of Diabetics Doing Things. We are telling the amazing stories of people with diabetes from all over the world. And right now in the US, the snow and the ice and the Arctic blast is causing some technical difficulties for us at Diabetics Doing Things at times. But we're very excited to interview our first guest on the pod this year, Lissie Poyner. Welcome to the show.

[00:00:24] Lissie Poyner: Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. I know it's the first one of the year.

[00:00:28] Rob Howe: First guest of the year. We definitely, we've had a couple of pods, but they've all been internal. So we're, but we're hyping you for guest numero uno. I'll take it. And you are the founder of Needles and Spoons. And I think we're going to talk a lot about that today, but also you work with SkinGrip. And so we've worked together at first, like behind the scenes, I feel like we worked together for a while and now like more front facing on some of the work that we do. And obviously, SkinGrip is an awesome partner of ours and, you know, love to continue to working together. So let's get the podcast started on our typical path, which let's talk about your diagnosis story and also like focusing in on diagnosis as a young adult, because I know that's a big part of your story.

[00:01:10] Lissie Poyner: Yeah, I feel like this is something that's a lot more common now, which when I was diagnosed, I didn't think that there was anybody like me. Right. So I was 19 when I was diagnosed, freshman in college, first time living alone. So I was in my spring semester and had really just started finding like my group with classes, my friend groups, my roommate. And I mean, as one does, I got I came down with the flu in January because I went to Penn State. It's a very crowded school. There was like 40,000 people. You're like crammed in on the buses with all these people. It was bound to happen. And happy Valley, right? Yeah, we were there. so I came down with the flu and I mean two weeks later started noticing all the classic symptoms you know having to use the bathroom and you know all the things that you're able to pass off as oh I'm just I'm just healing from the flu I'm recovering and there was one moment that stuck out in time again Penn State very small dorm rooms I was like three feet away from my roommate so it shouldn't be hard to see her right but she was very blurry one one day when I woke up and that was my immediate like okay if there's something affecting my eyesight I want to I want to nip this in the bite I want to find out what it is that night I called the overnight nurse which again very difficult to come by when you're out of school like Penn State and she had said like do not make an appointment come in right away tomorrow morning 8 a.m sharp like just come in do not eat or drink anything so I think she knew I think she had a pretty good idea of what was going on just by, you know, gauging my symptoms. And so I went in and I'm very lucky they were able to diagnose me right away. They knew exactly what to do. They took blood work, tested me for ketones. And right off the bat, I was given a diagnosis of type 1 diabetes. My family, I mean, I'm the only one that has type 1. So they're very like, this can't be right. Like what, what tests did they miss? So I think like going into my second appointment, I had kind of like blind hope of like, well, what if I just like, don't eat carbs? Like, can this be, can this go away? I was very naive to what diabetes was, but yeah, I have to say, like, I was very lucky to be diagnosed how I was, especially at the age that I was.

[00:03:21] Rob Howe: it's interesting i i also feel that way like in the urgent care now i think we see the signs of diabetes and like you said they're the typical signs like we know them as as familiar but at first you may not have anybody with diabetes in your life or may not have encountered anybody or you know somebody that you that did have it you didn't really know they were managing it sort of behind the scenes um to your point though it's nice to say oh yeah hey we know what's going on we We can, you know, we can diagnose you. We can get this stuff. Talk to me a little bit about like your, you know, your family, like kind of trying to understand that, because I think that's also part of that education. You know, my family, I was I was a little bit younger. So a children's hospital, you know, and that framework takes place more on the family side anyway, like they work through your parents, even if you're a little bit older. So like not having that, I'm sure left them with a lot of questions.

[00:04:15] Lissie Poyner: It did. It was one of those moments where I don't think that they knew what to do. And we were kind of charting on this new territory, too, because I was away at school. Like I'm gaining my independence. And I don't know if they really knew what to do with that, especially because I was four hours away. I live in I live in New Jersey. So or they lived in Jersey. So, you know, there's distance. And then there is this, you know, I'm 19. So they didn't really know what to do with that. So everybody was kind of taking it a little bit differently. My brother, I have two older brothers. My one brother was kind of at the forefront, like doing research on the internet and saying like, you know, again, just very, we didn't know any better. So he was saying, don't take insulin. Like it'll make you more dependent on it. Like at takeout wheat, kind of like learning all that side. And that was confusing because it was conflicting with the information that I was getting. And then, you know, we have my parents, my mom with my sounding board. She had no idea what to do because, again, very unfamiliar with the diagnosis. And my dad was kind of on the back end. I mean, he's generally a man of few words, but he was going to church and praying and kind of being in the background. But I just think in general, nobody really knew the boundaries around it. Nobody knew what to do with the diagnosis. It was very confusing for all of us.

[00:05:31] Rob Howe: And how did that... I feel like that's a really normal thing, especially for somebody at that age, Like you're already so much is in transition and so much is in flux just because you're living away from home for the first time. I think your parents are probably, you know, you said you had older brothers, but, you know, so they had gone through at least some type of this. But are you the only daughter in the family?

[00:05:53] Lissie Poyner: I am.

[00:05:54] Rob Howe: So, you know, the baby girl or the daughter like side of that is probably like a little bit of protective there as well. So as you think about your diabetes onboarding, I think looking back now and all that uncertainty and all those things that you didn't know or couldn't find out or were getting conflicting information on, how do you feel like you and your family were set up from the jump?

[00:06:17] Lissie Poyner: Yeah, I mean, again, because we didn't have any history of this to our knowledge, I think I was very dependent on what my doctors were saying, which as you should be, you should always listen to your endocrinologist. but the issue there is that they were they were giving me advice of you can do anything that you want you can eat anything that you want you know you can live your normal life which I really valued I'm appreciative that they said that however because I wasn't really taught how to do that it it was conflicting because I was trying to go about my normal day however I had this new routine of taking insulin and figuring out you know my carb counts and everything and I was seeing the fluctuations in my blood sugars. So I'm having this confliction of like, I know I can do what I want or I can live my normal life, but I'm not feeling great in return. So does this mean that I actually can't do the things that I was doing before? Or does it mean that I need to take a different approach? There's a lot of confusion. And in return, I think I just kind of shied away from it because I was still processing and figuring it out that I didn't really I did go on Google and search and look for other people with diabetes. But this was a time before social media really took off. This is going on 10 years ago. So, you know, the only person I really knew with diabetes was Nick Jonas. And he wasn't really somebody I could go to for advice.

[00:07:42] Rob Howe: He wasn't responding back quickly in the DMs.

[00:07:45] Lissie Poyner: Unfortunately not. So I did. I actually like did a lot of blog posts on my Tumblr and like Tumblr at the time was really a lot of people were like giving me advice there. But it wasn't something that I was really, I was more confused than anything.

[00:07:59] Rob Howe: It's interesting to, sorry, go ahead. I just, there's something that you said that I really like wanted to dig into a bit more. You were like, I was going about my normal life, but I wasn't feeling good. And I- I was gonna tap in on that as well. I remember. I really noticed it. I remember feeling that way, you know, sometimes just in your general life, not now, but a while ago. And someone once told me, well, you always don't feel good because you have diabetes. Like you're always not going to feel good. I was just like, that is a horrible thing to say. And also it's not true. So I just wonder if like while you were going through the thought process, those emotions, if you were like, I'm supposed to not feel good all the time.

[00:08:37] Lissie Poyner: Yeah, absolutely. I think that's kind of the norm that you're given of you're going to have high blood sugar. So this is just how you're going to feel. And I took that to heart because like I was, you know, I was an engineering student. I'm not an engineer now, obviously. But, you know, I'm It's affecting the way that I study. It was affecting the things that I was doing activity-wise. Three months after my diagnosis, I was going on a research trip to Curacao, and I was supposed to be taking scuba diving lessons, and I had to drop out because, one, I had no idea how to navigate diabetes. I didn't know how to scuba dive, but throwing diabetes on top of that just wasn't going well. So I really had this kind of internal monologue of, you're not going to feel good for the rest of your life. This is going to affect how you make relationships, how you travel or do the things that you love. And I just I didn't want to accept it, but I kind of took the stance of I felt really bad for myself, which I think at the time I needed. But yeah, it was really hard.

[00:09:35] Rob Howe: I think too, like the conflicting information of, or the, I guess the dichotomy of like hearing and talking about, you can, you can do anything you want, but then the reality of, you know, running into that, you know, double-edged sword of diabetes, like, and I think of it, I think it manifests itself the most through like exercise because like people like plan it out, they'll go to the gym and like, they'll be like, yes, I'm doing the right thing for myself. And then they'll have either a high or a low blood sugar, depending on what they're doing. And then they'll feel some shame around that. In some cases, like they have to eat, like, you know, they're maybe on a weight loss journey or that's a priority. And they're having to sit at the gym and eat candy and like negate the calorie, you know, part of their workout. And I think that like can compound and snowball into bad feelings. And then you start to blame yourself in some cases. So I don't know. Does that seem kind of like how you were feeling in those moments?

[00:10:30] Lissie Poyner: 100%. And before my diagnosis, I was a competitive gymnast for 10 years. So I was always feeling strong. I was, you know, it was just in my nature to feel that way. I was always kind of competing against myself, always wanting to improve physically. And, you know, and so when I was diagnosed with diabetes, when I'm feeling weak and when I'm going to the gym and, you know, my blood sugars are chaotic, that was a huge identity crisis in itself of just how I felt physically and how I wanted to navigate that moving forward and I think that played a role for the next few years honestly

[00:11:07] Rob Howe: yeah I think it's really it's really a tough like egg to crack I guess or like a nut to crack is probably like the right I was like eggs are easy to crack like you know whatever that's you know people want me to mess quotes up. I think that's honestly like that's going to help with the listenership. 2024, funnier quotes, less serious. Yeah, less serious. Like, let's just like, let's just like hold on a little less tightly there. So I want to talk a little bit about managing multiple chronic illnesses because you have shared publicly and continue to do, and I'm sure it manifests itself in your coaching as well of, you know, living with diabetes, but also living with an adjacent chronic illness or something in your case, ulcerative colitis. So it was like, talk about that journey. Was that before or was it during or was it after? And then how did you have to go on that self-discovery journey as well to help manage diabetes with another adjacent chronic illness? And I know some of us like myself live with hypothyroidism, others with celiac and adjacent endocrine. Your endocrine system is totally out of whack. And so you end up with adjacent chronic illnesses, but share a little bit about what that journey was like for you.

[00:12:20] Lissie Poyner: I think I got the lucky draw in my family because nobody else has diabetes and nobody else has colitis. And if I use colitis and Crohn's interchangeably, it's because I was originally diagnosed with colitis and my new doctor now formally diagnosed with Crohn's. So four years after I was diagnosed with diabetes, I had graduated in engineering and moved to Miami for a new job that was offered in a tech company. and actually, ironically, February of that year. So I was diagnosed with diabetes February 17th, 2014. I diagnosed with Crohn's on February 14th, 2017. So that week of February is just very reflective now.

[00:12:59] Rob Howe: Valentine's Day is like taking a big backseat that week for you.

[00:13:02] Lissie Poyner: Oh, yeah. Nothing like getting a colonoscopy on Valentine's Day. That was great. But that was another time where I was just feeling really run down, feeling all these different symptoms. and you know fast forward I went to a gastroenterologist and they you know diagnosed me with Crohn's disease so now we have this double whammy right because I'm still figuring out how type 1 diabetes works I just moved away from my family again and I'm completely alone in this new phase of life again diagnosed with Crohn's disease and now it's not just something that you have your numbers and you're managing day-to-day blood sugar fluctuations. But I was now dealing with physical pain. And my mindset then was that I can deal with the fluctuating numbers. I can figure that out. But dealing with physical pain was, it just really punched me in the gut, so to say. And I had this, you know, that obviously really messed with my relationship with food because at that point, okay, now I'm trying to figure out how food affects my blood sugars. but now I have to go even further and figure out what foods I can eat that don't make me feel pain so that whole period in my life was very isolating I was really trying to figure out you know okay at this point I'm 23 years old and I'm trying to figure out now what this life looks like what what does this mean for me because this is something I had never thought I would experience I'm the only one in my family and it did eventually move me into a more holistic route at that point, like I mentioned, I had moved to Miami. I was in a career that I did not enjoy. I graduated in engineering, but I'm not an engineer. So it was something that I really had to sit down and force myself to learn. And it took a lot of failed classes. And again, it was one of those kind of things that you're taught, go to college, pick out your degree, get a good job. And I didn't realize until it was too late that it was not for me. So I was in a career.

[00:15:05] Rob Howe: I don't want to spend too much time on this, but this is something that's always a sticking point for me because you're 17 years old and you have to decide what you want to do for the rest of your life. And then if you're wrong, in the middle, there's all this stigma around changing your major. And I think we just have a weird stigma in the West about quitting things as well. I don't want to, again, don't want to derail the podcast totally. But like it is it's difficult sometimes when you realize and I think you have to really overcome a lot of resistance to say this isn't for me, even though I've invested a lot of time here, maybe money, energy, all the above. Like it's just a challenging time to learn about who you are, especially as your body is changing. Yeah, I don't think it's derailing either, because at the time, like literally looking at us, we are three people who went to college, got certain educations. I don't do anything that I learned. Like my degree and background is in tech and I'm a podcaster and social media person. So it's it is very interesting that all three of us deal with chronic illnesses. We're diagnosed young, young ish, had to decide like, hey, we have to do this to stay alive. I think that also plays a role, right? Like you have to have insurance, Eritrea. You have to be able to pay for this for the rest of your life. So you make the best decision. And I can imagine that engineering is a lucrative career. People or engineers make bread. So all of that comes into play when you make those decisions. I just think that's so interesting. We're going to have to do a whole deep dive episode on that, Rob, because I agree children to choose careers like shame, shame, America, shame. It's interesting, too, because in other countries, they have like different tracks. Like if like in Europe, if you're this is way off, but like if you're, you know, like for me, I'm tall and like loved basketball. I would have just been put on like a sports track and like would be, you know, like they're like, hey. Or in Mexico or in Mexico. My mom is a my mom is a chemical engineer who is not a chemical engineer. She graduated from college when she was 22. She started that track when she was like 18, 19. It was because when she was in secondary school, I think they said that she had like a gift with science. Other places do it differently. Maybe we should. But I want to get back to talking about comorbidities and or like co-diagnosis and diabetes, because I think your story of dealing with physical pain, like I'm not sure, I don't know if we've talked about it too much in the pod, but I have celiac disease. And so I totally get like, ow, my bones hurt and I don't know why and where this is coming from. So let's go back a little bit and I want to not interrupt you, Lizzie. Yeah. That's what we did. I want to talk about that too. And I also want to keep it like framed in your experience as a gymnast as well, because you've experienced like physical training and like growth and like soreness and things like that. But then having to adjust that identity as well, dealing with the chronic pain.

[00:17:59] Lissie Poyner: Yeah. So, I mean, it's kind of interesting going back to a little bit of what we were talking about before. I'm getting all this praise externally from my family and friends. Oh, she moved to Miami. She has a really great job, like graduated, living it up, you know. And then, like we mentioned, I'm experiencing all this pain and I'm feeling like, why me? And then back to that isolation. So yeah, I mean, I'm very lucky in that, you know, after a few months, my medication started kicking in and it still is. I'm going on six years and I'm in remission. So very lucky there. But I mean, this is what I know at the time. I'm 23 years old and these two chronic diseases are taking everything from me that I know. It's taking away my ability to work out and feel strong. It's taking away my ability to be social, even though I'm more introverted. I'm definitely an introvert, but I felt isolated. I didn't have any friends in Miami. It's taking my way to be good at my job. I don't know if that's completely related to the Crohn's. I generally wasn't an engineer, but it was taking all this from me and I didn't know what to do. So again, I went back into that isolation mode, into kind of like that self-pity mode of why me? This is what life looks like now. And that was my lowest low, 100%.

[00:19:21] Rob Howe: I think that's relatable and understandable, right? Like 19 to 23 is an extremely formative time of your brain and life. And I can't imagine being like, okay, I'm gaining my independence. I'm going to college. I'm going to finally like be set out on my own. And then these insane obstacles just come up that are quite literally not your fault. You didn't do anything to create them. And it's one after the other. I can almost imagine. It must have felt very like doom and gloom, like it's all over. This is a wrap.

[00:19:50] Lissie Poyner: It did. And especially because I was the only one in my family, it was just like, what gives? Not that I ever wanted anything to happen to my family, but it was more of at least then I could find a reason in it of like, OK, these are my genetics or, you know, it just happened. But it was just, yeah, very much one of those things like what happened? Like, why me?

[00:20:10] Rob Howe: It's also difficult, I think, in those moments because there's a lot of like toxic positivity sometimes of like not really accepting who you are or, you know, trying to overcome all the time. And it's like, you know, today I don't want to just overcome. I just want to like be able to be myself and not feel shame or pain or, you know, challenges about it. And I think for me, trying to find things that allow me to not dwell on it was something that I learned as well. you know, whether it was sports or something else to try to, you know, throw myself into something where I didn't have as much, you know, I don't know, just a good distraction, I think. And, you know, I've also learned that that's not always the right way to go. But I think part of that is that process of grief, right? Like, you're grieving who you used to be. And sometimes you're in denial about it. Sometimes you're angry. Sometimes you're sad. Sometimes you accept it. And I think, I don't know, if I could work on one slide for like the rest of my life, it would be like just like the life cycle of like, you know, living with a chronic illness and like those first few years and going through that cycle over and over and all the different ways that it can affect you. And then throw another one on top of that while you're also dealing with all the change of being in the quote unquote real world. And that's something I think I talk about a lot as well. This is really hitting on a lot of my like typical talking points of like, especially if you're in school or like an athlete and you've had somebody help you manage your schedule and like be responsible for you or like be responsible for your success, invested in your success. When that ends, like your new manager at your tech job probably wasn't like thinking about how you're going to grow in your career all the time or like, you know, building a plan for you to be successful because they're focused on themselves. That's not their fault. It's just not set up well for them. And so, you know, I think during the time where you need the most support to be going through the part of your life where that support is not built in, It's such a huge challenge.

[00:22:06] Lissie Poyner: It's so tough. I remember very specifically, because again, with diabetes, at least in my experience, I was very much thrown back into life. They're like, here's insulin. Here's the basics of diabetes management. Go back to classes. I never took a time off or anything like that. However, with the Crohn's, I needed to take a few days off of work. And again, I'm sitting with the pain as I'm taking these days off of work. And I don't know if you guys know Jiggy Yoon. She's another type 1 diabetic. I do.

[00:22:34] Rob Howe: Oh, she's a sweetie.

[00:22:36] Lissie Poyner: Yes. We went to Penn State together. I ironically met because she didn't have an Omnipod. I had one and somehow our numbers crossed paths. And I remember texting her. And because similar to what you were saying, Rob, like you're you kind of just power like you you go you get through it. You just kind of like you're you tough it out. But this was a time I didn't want to tough it out. I remember texting her and saying, like, I'm so mad. I'm so mad that this is my life. And I felt bad saying it. And I still have this screenshot of what she sent back. And she was just like, be mad. This is not fair. And it's okay to say that out loud. And just getting that permission to feel that way was so relieving.

[00:23:21] Eritrea Musa: And it took a friend with diabetes to unlock that for you, right? I love that. Put that everywhere. where if you're upset about your diabetes, be mad. Be mad. Let's be mad together. Let's crush it. I want to... This podcast is Diabetics Doing Things, and we always talk about diabetes and all of that. And I want to make sure, respectful of all the time that we have, but I want to talk about Crohn's a little bit more, just because I don't think that we talk about how the intersection of celiac, Crohn's, EPI, and type 1, like, I just don't think we talk about it enough to the point where it seems like a big question mark in the medical field. Short background, because I'm very good at making things about me. But in 2012, I lost like 80 pounds and my parents couldn't figure it out. And they sent me to a bunch of doctors and all these doctors are like, it's psychological. She has type 1. type 1 usually develops eating disorders, but her A1C is great. Took a long time to figure out. I think I got to my lowest weight of like 85 pounds before they figured out I was like you have celiac disease like you cannot eat bread you throw up everything and that's why and then the symptoms were all super weird like I had bone pain like in my hips like I'd rock myself and it just like it was very unmanageable and as a person who had already had diabetes for a decade and then developed that I was really hard like I just remember being like sorry listeners if you're listening to this in the car with your kids What the fuck? Like, this hurts. It sucks. So can we, because it sounds like your journey was a little bit more straightforward than mine. Mine just took a long time to diagnose. Can you talk a little bit about what that diagnosis was like? And if doctors were receptive to you, did you feel ignored? Like, how did that go?

[00:25:05] Lissie Poyner: Yeah. So initially, I mean, I don't know how in detail we want to go with the symptoms, but the symptoms are not fun. For anybody who doesn't know Crohn's disease, it's inflammation in your colon. So symptoms were not fun. They were not pretty. And I had gone to the urgent care because I didn't even know where to start. I didn't know to look for this. And that initial appointment, they just told me, hey, you're probably constipated. Go and pick up some Miralax from the pharmacy and have a good day. Very quick in and out appointment. A few days later, I had been noticing, again, not pretty symptoms, but there was blood and I was in a lot of pain in my abdomen. I had really deep aches and pains. I was cramping. I couldn't even like get up to go to work. And so that's when I said, okay, I need to make an appointment with a gastroenterologist. I can't even say the word, gastro. And I don't know how I got the referral, But at that point, they pretty much off the bat, they're like, let's do a scope. Let's check out what's going on and we'll go from there. And again, like, I mean, kind of going back to you don't really realize the impact of things on your body until I think they happen. I had just gone through four years of a lot of stress at college, fluctuating blood sugars. I was living off of caffeine, very little sleep, drinking alcohol. Let's be real. As a party school and I was volunteering a lot and I was working part time to like pay my rent and everything. So, I mean, looking back, it makes a lot of sense that I was feeling that way or that I had a lot of inflammation going on because of all the stress that I was under for years. But I don't think I really knew what to look for at that point.

[00:26:47] Eritrea Musa: And for people who might, you didn't know what to look for. You were just going through all these things. Was the first diagnosis, like, because you said, wasn't there another diagnosis first before they said Crohn's? Yeah. And that's another thing that really bugs me about EPI, Crohn's, Celiac, is like, it's all just so similar. And also, a doctor told me this once. they've been taught that diabetics are liars. That's what a doctor told me once. And he was like, so they don't, but I've heard that so many times. And so they don't believe the certain symptoms, which is when you, girl, when you said Miralax, I was like, that's what happened to me. First day I walked in there, they were like, here, take this Miralax, go home. Second time, they were like, okay, you can stay for a day. We're going to put GoLYTELY in your nose and see if we can get you unconstipated in the hospital. So it just really seems like there's like a gap of information between diabetes and stomach conditions because there's a real link there is what it seems like even just from this conversation.

[00:27:42] Lissie Poyner: Yeah. And I mean, the funny thing is when I had woken up from the colonoscopy, the way that they even diagnosed me was so just unbothered. Like he had said, hey, we're thinking it's and kind of going back to the initial diagnosis of ulcerative colitis. It's essentially just like ulcerative colitis is like a smaller form of inflammation. So it's just like a smaller pattern, whereas Crohn's is going through your whole intestine. so the reason why i'm diagnosed with crones now is because my new doctor had said hey like the patterns that you had gotten stoked for kind of look more consistent with crones so not too far off but when i had woken up from the colonoscopy he had just said hey like it's ulcerative colitis i'm still groggy at this point we're gonna put you on this meditation indefinitely and just kind of live your life i was given no context no education it was just take these four pills every morning. See you in three months for a follow up. That's so similar to people who are

[00:28:36] Rob Howe: being diagnosed with diabetes. Do you see that connection where it's like, hey, this is a chronic illness. You're going to have to deal with the rest of your life. Bye. Like, what would I do without Google? But well, I'm sharing that story also, by the way, it's I'm sure it was it's just it's just hard. I we're girls. Girls don't poop, guys. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's just such a hard thing to even talk. Well, and you said like scope, like scope is colonoscopy. Like Like go under, like do, like prepare like a very, like, you know, it's invasive and, you know, uncomfortable. So let's let's call it what it is. My calling in life is to tell people to get their colonoscopy when they're supposed to, because screenings work and they will catch things. So definitely do that. And don't let people deter you from it, even if you're young. I remember when I when I first got diagnosed, we really pushed for an endoscopy colonoscopy at the same time because they can show you like what the camera like captures. do not let a doctor tell you you're too young do not let a doctor tell you that push and if they say no make them write it down in your medical record people who are listening if a doctor says no you're too young for a colonoscopy say thank you that's fine could you please annotate that in my medical record and then ask to be discharged from their service and a referral to a different gi i cannot say that's people enough so many people are afraid to break up with their doctors they work for you baby they work for you and just to tap on it again straight dudes don't like talking about butt stuff, but don't be intimidated. Go in there and get yourself checked. Screenings work. They can save your life. To Eritrea's point, everybody's got a different family history. Everybody's doctor will recommend a different time to go do them, but do what the doctor says, and unless they're telling you don't get it or telling not to worry about it and you really feel like you should, like Eritrea said, stand up and fire your doctor. I think this is a good folding into some of the other questions that we have because what we're talking about is lack of information, decide for yourself how you want to manage your condition, whether it's diabetes or Crohn's or something else. And then that kind of leaves you this bevy of options. And it starts with Google and you end up on WebMD and you're like, oh my God, I'm going to die. So for you, and now with needles and spoons as well, let's talk a little bit about how, you know, what, A, what you discovered about yourself in that sort of journey about you and your diabetes management and your management of Crohn's, and then how you have kind of taken that learning, those learnings and applied it to, you know, your, your clients. I don't know if you call them patients, but call them clients, right. And, and, and people in the community.

[00:31:14] Lissie Poyner: Yeah. So like I mentioned, left that appointment with very little information. Google was the first place I went and I'm hearing all these things about, you know, managing with your diet and, you know, avoiding X, Y, Z. So I bought all the books of like an anti-inflammatory diet and kind of like tried to move on with the diagnosis. However, over the next few months, again, I was in this career that I did not like. It was kind of a toxic environment. I was living completely alone until I had gotten into a relationship and it was a very toxic one. There was a lot of emotional and verbal abuse. And, you know, I was very isolated. So again, kind of more of these compounding stressors on my life. At that point, again, I was still in pain from the Crohn's. My A1C was, you know, it was a little bit higher for my range. It was like in the sevens. And my doctor, they were just like, you know, keep doing what you're doing because things look good. You know, we always kind of hear that. And it took me until the fall, summer fall of that year me and my that's at that point had broken up and I decided to move home from Miami to Jersey and it's kind of funny because at that point I moved home I'm back with my family I am moving my body in a way that feels good I'm working from home at that point because I was still with that company I had actually met my current husband a month later so I was in a healthy relationship back with my friends. And I started seeing all these compounding, you know, these compounding events, I guess the opposite of stress, leading into my health. And I'm also at this point taking my health coaching certification because I want to learn for my own sake of how to manage my lifestyle better. And I'm seeing that my Crohn's went into remission and my A1c went down from in the sevens to a 5.7. And that was without restricting anything I was eating. It was out like a super structured routine, all these things that I was reading from Google. So that's when the light bulb went off of, okay, there's so much more to this than I was told at my diagnosis. People say you can just do what you want and continue about your life with no information. But here I am seeing the impact of just how I'm managing my social circle. And in health coaching, we call it like the circle of life, all these different departments of your life. So that's how needles and spoons got started. I get a lot of questions about like even the name needles and spoons. And I guess to like for some back context of that, needles obviously coming from living with type 1 diabetes and then spoons coming from the spoon theory, which is if you haven't heard of it, go ahead and look in Google. But it's basically a it was like a blog post or something written about somebody living with lupus who described how she utilizes her day-to-day energy and the way that she kind of like relayed it was with by using spoons of like one spoon taken away for different parts of your day. So yeah, that's kind of how Needles and Spoons was created. I was like, there's so much more to this than we're told. And it's like, we need more of that hands-on support that lets people kind of navigate both. I want to talk about this too,

[00:34:29] Rob Howe: because we've asked this question before to other diabetes entrepreneurs, to diabetes content creators. You have been living with diabetes for 10 years or, you know, just almost, it'll be 10 years this year, right? Yep. So coming right up. And so first of all, congrats, you made the 10 year mark, a decade living with diabetes. You live with, you are creating content about, you know, for Needles and Spoons and, you know, for your personal channels. You are working in diabetes, not only at Needles and Spoons, but also at SkinGrip. Like, how do you manage your burnout? That's a lot of diabetes to take in. And I think something that Eritrea and I, I think, are very sensitive to in the community is like people who are over-indexed for potential for diabetes burnout. So how does that manifest itself in your life and how do you respond?

[00:35:21] Lissie Poyner: I think for the most part, I use it as a reminder to like take care of myself. But there are those moments of I don't like everything I talk about is about diabetes. And then when you're managing your own diabetes on top of it, you're managing your own technical difficulties. I'm I've been talking a lot of my social media of how I'm switching from Omnipod to tandem in the next few months just because I'm having so many issues with my current tech. And that feels like a lot sometimes. So just in the past year, I've kind of challenged myself a little bit to be more conservative with what I share or just more sharing like the real life with diabetes. And that's taken a lot of, you know, is it worth posting this? Will, like, is it worth posting five days a week if it's not serving my audience in the best way that I can or if it's not serving my mental health? So if I'm having a really bad diabetes day, do I want to share about a good diabetes a day that happened a few days ago that I'm just editing the content to? So kind of like really navigating that of like, let's kind of post things that are actually relatable right now that I know I'm not the only one experiencing. Right now I'm navigating a lot of diabetes tech issues. I'm in this middle ground between just getting married and like when we eventually start our family. And like people want to talk about that because it is a really messy and confusing time of life. So I'm trying to challenge myself to talk more about that, those things when it feels aligned with what I need. Some days, some weeks, I go weeks without posting. And that's part of the reason why I also did go full time with SkinGrip. Recently, I took needles and spoons full time to SkinGrip full time, which I feel like is another conversation itself when you're labeled as an entrepreneur of like, can you work full time when you're an entrepreneur? but that was a reason why I'm like I need a little bit more of this connection between what I'm sharing online because then you start going down the rabbit hole of like this content needs to be perfect it needs to get engagement and I want to take that pressure off of myself because it gets to be a lot especially after you know I've been doing needles and spoons for five years now

[00:37:25] Eritrea Musa: that is girl you are speaking like you're talking to the choir so I completely understand having to be like this is my personal diabetes that I'm sharing online but also how is it making other people feel and also how would it make me feel I don't know I remember once someone posted something about having a great diabetes day when I was having like a terrible diabetes day and I was just like wow Eritrea like you're out here you we inadvertently sometimes can make people feel bad and I think it's so smart to figure out like I can still add value to the diabetes community maybe through a brand. And I feel like that all the time when I get to post things through Diatribe. Like, I'm just like, OK, this will be really great for people with diabetes. I think it's also a perfect time to talk about this because two days ago on Monday, I posted a random photo and I literally was like, remember when we all just used to post to post for fun? And I think the picture got more likes than a lot of my diabetes posts in the last six months because it's just so the Internet is so diabetes heavy. And there's all of us are having similar conversations that it's hard to add value. But when you can find a place like SkinGrip, who I love, I love what you guys do over at SkinGrip. The branding is awesome. It's for everyone. It's so great. And still be able to share some value. I'm sure that that still scratches the edge without having to open up your vulnerabilities, you know?

[00:38:42] Lissie Poyner: Right. It takes away the personal aspect. And I can share about my journey with SkinGrip when I want to. Like if I want an email coming from me, I can do that. But it doesn't have to be. It can be educational. It can connect with different people without having to share what was my blood sugar today or like, what am I doing for my management? I don't need to talk about that

[00:38:59] Rob Howe: if I don't want to. Something that I think about and I try to respond in a good way about is that while some of the stuff seems burnout to me, someone else may be hearing it for the first time. And I think that's part of the sort of life cycle as a content creator is that there are going to be new people discovering you all the time. And the people who discover us for the first time with diabetes are generally in that like rock bottom point that you talked about earlier, Lizzie, like, or that, you know, they feel like they have no one, they're isolated. And for some reason, they either got told to go follow someone or they found a hashtag or they just decided that they weren't going to be alone in their diabetes anymore. They were going to find people like those people still come through as well. And they and like, so those things, the little posts, the little internet posts that we do, they do reach people. They do help people. They do connect people. And so at the same time, it's hard to do that every day, day in and day out. It's like, oh, great. Another exercise and diabetes post. Here we go. You know, because it's complicated. It's hard. And somebody might be hearing it for the first time. To use Rob's favorite word, it's a dichotomy. Wow. Is that the right way? Is that the right way to use that word? Yes. Yeah. Look at me, English. Anyways. Is that my favorite word? Man, I'm boring. You said it a lot last year, bro. Like, I'm sorry, but I'm going to get you a t-shirt. Like the dichotomy man. Like that's your superhero ego. The t-shirt should be like, both things can be true. Like both are true. Yeah. You talked a little bit about this already, Lizzie, but I, there's a soft spot in my heart for entrepreneurs and you, I wanted to just know for you, like what, what's the most impactful thing you've learned maybe about yourself? Maybe it's a specific tactical thing, but just running your own business and being an entrepreneur.

[00:40:46] Lissie Poyner: Oh, man. Yeah, I was thinking about this question a lot leading up to this. And I don't know if I have a solid answer because there can be a million and one things. But being an entrepreneur, I think, is the most challenging thing I've ever done. And it's a look in the mirror kind of every day because it does. It challenges all these different pieces of your values, your ethics, your your will to keep continuing when the days are hard. so i don't know if i have like one solid answer but i think for me this past year i've really had to sit down and wonder like what is what does entrepreneurship look like for me because i love the freedom of creating something that means something i love sharing our values and needles and spoons i love allowing more women to gain more predictability while you know being flexible with their diabetes management however i've also had to set very specific boundaries with myself because if you let it, being an entrepreneur and whatever your brand is or whatever you do can kind of take over your identity in the way that diabetes can too. I've had to really ask myself, who am I outside of a person living with diabetes? And I know we kind of touched on this, Rob, in the podcast that we did for T100 Radio, but who am I outside of a person living with diabetes? Who am I outside of needles and spoons? When somebody asks me, what do you do or who are you? For a while, I couldn't answer that. So I really think like this past year, the learning lesson has been trying to step back and figure out what are my values as a person and where do I want to take that into the years to come? That is a great answer. I feel the same way.

[00:42:23] Rob Howe: Like sometimes when people are like, oh, what do you do? My first thought is like, where do I start? you know and also like we are not exactly what we do it's a very western thing you know talking about jobs is a very like first first time you meet somebody that's that's what we spend most of our time doing so we talk about it i remember that was a good episode i loved thank you for me let me be on the show on keeping it 100 i think it was i remember listening to it and feeling like okay like we covered some really like meaningful stuff here i think too though So I am looking forward to this year. I'm putting myself into situations where no one knows who I am. I have no, like, I'm just like everybody else. I'm just a student. Like I'm starting a class tomorrow with other entrepreneurs. I'm just another one of the entrepreneurs. And like, I'm so looking forward to not having any expectation or exposition attached. I can just be Rob. Rob, I'm here just like you guys to learn about my business. And I think that's something too, like, we carry so much with us that nobody else knows about. And I think when we start to share that, it becomes even more of a burden sometimes to like attach ourselves to, well, who's Rob without diabetes or who is Rob or who is Lizzie without needles and spoons? Who is Eritrea without diatribe? Like all of these things, we attach that to our identity, we carry it with us. sometimes we just got to show up as ourselves for ourselves and i think that's something that i'm trying to be more intentional about throughout all of the different things that i do diabetics

[00:43:55] Lissie Poyner: doing things i love that i've been trying to some i mean we're in january so some of the new year's resolutions kind of things are coming up but kind of same thing like none of my new year's resolutions have to do with my business or my diabetes really like i am challenging myself to run a 10k and i just applied to do the adventure team with Connected in Motion like these things that are just things that i would want to do that are on my bucket list or have been on my bucket list before i was diagnosed with diabetes so yeah i love that i think finding that balance is really important lizzie we're the same person i applied for that thing and i'm also planning to run a race

[00:44:30] Rob Howe: at one point this year if you listen to the robin air trade show which dropped today that's my goal Like I was just like, oh, so Lizzie, we're going to be friends, girl. Okay. I love this. Yeah. You adventurers, you. I love it. Well, Connected in Motion just seems cool. Just to touch on it for a moment, I want to give them a free ad because I'm a person who went to camps as a kid and it changed my life and made me a better human being. I can't imagine what that could do for someone as an adult, especially if you were diagnosed as an adult like you or Lizzie or you, Rob. I challenge you, Rob. I challenge you to go to one of these adult day camps. I just think that it's different. Oh, yeah? I didn't know. I spoke at two of them. They were virtual, but I love the Connected in Motion. I just, you know what, Rob? If we don't go, what's the cause when you hold on to the thing and they throw you down the line? This is a white people activity. Yeah. If we don't get to do that together at some point, who are we pissed? But I just think that stuff like that is so important to build adult camaraderie with diabetes. So this is great. This is just, I feel so good right now. Super impactful. I'm buzzing. We've talked about it a lot. I like it. You're not guaranteed good days with diabetes. Anytime you can find one, that's always a good plan to make. Okay. So I know we're kind of landing the plane here. I want to talk about this and this is just for me. Sometimes there are questions for you. Sometimes they're questions for me. This is one for me. You have talked about this a lot. I know you work with a lot of women and you obviously have a training background from your life as a gymnast, but there's a lot of discussion in the diabetes online community about building muscle with diabetes and how insulin factors into that and how high and low blood sugars factor into that. But one of the things that always gets me, it's like one of my icks, is like one of the things that is not listed in how to build muscle with diabetes is strength training and lifting heavy stuff. So let's dig into it. I wanna talk a little bit about some free game for our ladies with diabetes who are listening and who are wanting to build muscle. We're talking about New Year's resolutions. It's a good time for it. I want to put you in the hot seat to talk a little bit about that. I'm here for it because strength training, I want to know everything. Please, spill the tea. Give me.

[00:46:37] Lissie Poyner: Let's do it. So, I mean, like I mentioned, I was a gymnast for 10 years. So being strong or feeling strong and muscular, my friend in grade school literally called me, what you call me, like muscle arms. It was just my thing.

[00:46:49] Rob Howe: Where would we be without our grade school friends to keep us humble?

[00:46:54] Lissie Poyner: Now realizing she wasn't much of a friend. Don't worry. Don't worry. You'll find me.

[00:46:57] Rob Howe: I'll let you stay humble. Don't you worry, dog. Anyways, continue, Lizzie.

[00:47:03] Lissie Poyner: But over the past few years that I've been focusing more on my health, working out has obviously been a big priority. In the last three years, I really made it my goal to build muscle because I wanted to feel strong. I didn't want to just simply do random workouts. And don't get me wrong. You don't have to follow a specific program to feel good in the gym or in your workouts. It really just depends on what your priorities are. And for me, I wanted to start taking a little bit more seriously in gaining muscle and feeling stronger. So I hired a coach, as we do, and got my personal training certification. And I mean, it's just funny, like when you think of diabetes, it right, a lot of the things come down to the basics, carb counting, baselines, all the things. Same thing with building muscle. So I kind of really shifted my perspective of my workouts, and they're still very enjoyable to me. And I find that when I see progression in the weights that I'm lifting or seeing physical changes, that really gives me a lot more motivation. I don't really fall under the category of like discipline and things like that. I just want a consistent routine that makes me feel good. So with muscle building, with diabetes, obviously we have the complexities of blood sugar management, but I feel like for the most part, we're just simply told lifting weights raises your blood sugar, cardio lowers your blood sugar. But But when we come down to it, it's a lot more complex on the management side, which I have a bunch of posts on that. But when it comes to building muscle, like it's really the basics, you know, following a routine with progressive overload. So if you're not familiar with what progressive overload is, it's actually doing the same workouts for like four to six weeks and progressing with that each time. So I've noticed that this helps me, one, really narrow, like nail down my form. So I'm feeling good in the movement. I'm not just doing a random workout. It helps me actually be able to add on the weight. So I've been, the last six weeks have been, I've been doing a lot of front squats. And this is like my, like my big win of the season, but I've gone from like 95 pounds to 115 pounds. And like, for me that I'm, I'm a little petite 5'2 person. I'm like, this is the win of the century, but actually picking a routine that feels good and, you know, being able to progress in that, whether it's in the weights, in the the reps or even the quality of reps. That's progressive overload. So that's been a huge deal. And also, especially as women and living with diabetes, one thing that we don't talk about a lot is eating enough. Because for building muscle, you need to eat enough. You need to eat in a coloric surplus. And I feel like that's so taboo to talk about, but it is really important of making sure that you're getting enough protein and you're getting enough calories in the day to fuel your muscles and with building muscle or just like feeling stronger a lot of people think i need to eat less because i want to either lose weight or whatever it is i feel better in my energy levels my hormones my my lifts by eating more um i lost track of where i was at but those

[00:50:06] Rob Howe: are the two main things so i love it it was progressive overload and then what you're eating right is that okay so if i okay so like let's say if i was gonna put this on the internet 30 seconds it's what are the two the two main things lizzie that i need to know too yeah i mean the two main

[00:50:26] Lissie Poyner: things evening enough working out in progressive overload i mean obviously too we want to throw in there prioritizing rest and recovery do not work out every single day your muscles need that break and you need to be able to actually like rest the muscles that you're building um and if i were to add in a bonus tip is like training until failure. So like actually not just doing the reps, but feeling the reps. So like my trainer schedules in 10 reps. So if I'm getting to that 10th rep, I want to be, it needs to be hard. So I'm not just throwing around like a five pound weight. If that feels easy, I'm getting to a weight to where it feels difficult.

[00:51:03] Rob Howe: I think all of that really speaks to another one of my quotes is like what gets measured gets managed. So whether it's an Apple watch or I see you wearing an Apple watch, for me, it's a whoop tracker that, you know, for me tracking my sleep, tracking my workouts, tracking my heart rate, really getting in and, you know, even like you said, being mindful of the reps and the weight and saying, okay, on rep 10 today, I felt good or I felt heavy or I felt light. Okay, cool. That's, that's an insight we can make a decision on because we managed it. And I think a lot of times people get intimidated by thinking that they have to have some sort of latest and greatest app or some, you know, latest and greatest program or, you know, some special journal or tracker. And a lot of times just writing it down, you know, on a piece of paper and managing it that way, that's how, you know, a lot of bodybuilders have done it for many years. Not to say that those other things aren't good because they certainly are, but I had this friend, this is, you know, back going back a long ways. I really wanted to like dunk. That was like the most important thing to me at like a certain time in my life. And like, I just was, I grew a lot. I was tall. I couldn't generate enough force. Like I wasn't like springy naturally. And so I was just working and working and working. And I was like, so hell bent on finding the right program. And one of my friends who was a couple of years older than me and like, nobody would say he was like a rocket scientist or anything, but he told me something really valuable that I still think about. And he was like, there is no program like that's going to get it done. He's like, stick to any program, Just stick to a program and see it through and you will get better. And I think that's something where whatever the program is, whatever the modalities are, whatever your goals are, stick to a plan. Give yourself some time. Measure it. Manage it. And I think you can find a way to accomplish your goal. Or find like Thomas Edison. I don't know. Has Thomas Edison been canceled yet? Probably. But like a thousand ways not to make a light bulb. Actually, that was said by Bravo Housewife. I'm just kidding. That sometimes happens. Bravo, well, Bravo Housewives thinking they're like revolutionary white men. But all that said, all that aside, I both of you guys are athletes like and I know we're running short on time, but I just want to ask a question. Both of you were raised athletically. You were a gymnast, Rob played basketball. Not all of us were genetically inclined to athletics. I liked books. So for those of us who, and now obviously I know how to work out, but I think access is such an important thing where if you were someone, if someone's listening to this episode and is like, okay, I want to take Lizzie's advice and I want to start. Where do I start? Should they look at your account? Are there workouts there? Like, how can you start, basically? If you have nothing, you have no money, maybe a couple of weights around your house, how do you start?

[00:53:49] Lissie Poyner: Yeah. And I mean, the internet is such a powerful thing, right? And you don't need a gym to be able to make progress in what you want to see physically or how strong that you feel. You can do it all with body weight in the comfort of your home. And I mean, yes, we share a ton of information on our accounts. I don't share like the workouts that I do. I'll share like wins from my workouts, but I've really strayed away from sharing like what I did at the gym just because how I program my workouts is me very different than the next person. so I would say like what you see online take with a grain of salt do the movements that feel good for you if you're just getting started nail down the form first because there's no point in increasing the weight or increasing the reps until the form feels good you want to make sure that you're doing it without injury without you know without anything feeling feeling wrong or feeling bad and yeah just I mean there's a ton of resources online I'm happy to send any to to anybody who

[00:54:46] Rob Howe: wants to we can put them in the show notes definitely yeah we can put them in the show notes definitely do that i also think to your point youtube and like the internet is like there if you have access to the internet which you do if you're listening to this podcast you can search for what you want and there's someone on there with a program that you can stick to with no necessarily no necessary equipment or anything like that i think of like even my mom like seven eight years ago decided to start doing yoga and like yoga with adrian like is like the like the ultimate youtube yoga program and now she's done yoga every every year like 30 days of yoga she starts her year that way and she's able to move and reduce injuries and like you know also challenge herself to do things that she used to not be able to do and she's 62 years old so you know i think it's never too late just and i think the journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step I don't know which housewife said that, but we can say it's Nemi and we'll just call it from there. Period. So Lizzie, thank you so much for coming on the pod today and for having me on keeping it 100 radio earlier or late last year. And thank you for all that you do for people with diabetes. This is your chance as well to include any links to Needles and Spoons or the work that you guys are doing at Skin Grip. Where can people find you if they want to connect with you online?

[00:56:07] Lissie Poyner: Yeah. On Instagram, needlesandspoons.com has a free resources tab. So anything that you want to learn more about, we have tons of resources and podcast episodes on. So never feel like you need to invest in a program or anything. There's a ton of free things at your disposal. So, SkinGrip have to always recommend their free samples because I know that I, personally, why I started working with SkinGrip is because I had tried so many of the other patch companies and couldn't find something that worked with my lifestyle. And that's how I started by doing their social media because I love their company so much and the product so much. So, they have free samples on their website, SkinGrip.com.

[00:56:47] Rob Howe: I love it. That's a great, great ad. We love SkinGrip. I'm the same way. I just vibe with the team and the products are great. I use them on my sensors as well. So you can say that I sign off. I endorse those products 100%. Okay, this podcast was produced by Eritrea Musa and edited and published by...