Jen Ross, T1D, Co-Founder of Swoon, Diabetes Creator Series

[00:00:00] Rob Howe: What up, pod fans? We are back with another interview with Diabetes Creators. Today, we're profiling co-founder of Swoon, Jen Ross. You also may remember Swoon as Be Mixed, which was a previous iteration of the company. But Swoon is available at tasteswoon.com. You can order it directly, or you can do what I did and order it from Foxtrot Market. They've got a lot of really cool, amazing flavors, low carb. They're also working on this current collaboration with Emma Chamberlain's brand, Chamberlain. and coffee. So check out tasteswoon.com. If you want to try it, this episode is not sponsored, but it is part of our diabetes creators series where we profile people with diabetes who are creating products for people with diabetes or creating content with people with diabetes. Jen and I spend some great time talking about the origins of swoon, how she and her team have evolved over time to create something that previously didn't exist for people with diabetes. So again, check out Swoon at tasteswoon.com and please enjoy this interview with Jen Ross. Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Diabetics Doing Things. We are telling the amazing stories of people with diabetes from all over the world. I'm very excited for today's interview. It's part of our creator series where we're highlighting creators and entrepreneurs who have used diabetes to spur them to either a business or into creativity online. Jennifer Ross, the CEO and co-founder of Swoon is my guest today. Jennifer, welcome to the show.

[00:01:23] Jen Ross: Thanks for having me.

[00:01:25] Rob Howe: It's so great to have you here. I want to share a quick story before we get into the interview, because I think it'll really resonate with the audience, is we had a hackathon at Diabetics Doing Things recently, and we were working on a big project and kind of like getting it all the way across the finish line. And I ordered a bunch of snacks and drinks from Foxtrot Market, and we put them kind of like all on the table. And Eritrea mentioned, uh, as she saw one of the beverages was a swoon beverage. And she said, Hey, did you know that the founder of swoon lives with diabetes? And I said, no way. And we turned around and read it on the can. Um, so, uh, anyway, that was the sort of like origin of how this interview came to be. So really excited to have you here on the pod.

[00:02:08] Jen Ross: Really excited to be here. And I love hearing that story. Love when people find us in the wild and make the connection.

[00:02:15] Rob Howe: Uh, well, great. So let's talk about speaking of the wild, the wild, wild world of growing up with diabetes. And I know from other interviews that you've done that you were diagnosed at age six. So I assume there's probably not much of your life that you remember without diabetes. So what do you remember and what was it like for you growing up with diabetes in your house and growing up with diabetes in your home?

[00:02:39] Jen Ross: Yeah, I mean, you're exactly right. I was six. So I feel like, you know, it was the summer going into first grade. I was at camp. And so I remember like vividly like kindergarten and then first grade. And actually, I was one of the first people to have type 1 diabetes in my school. And so I remember, you know, first grade coming back, we, you know, educated all my mom educated all of the teachers and everything, but she actually would sit outside the door outside my classroom to test my blood sugar to do my shots. She was super worried. The teachers were super worried. So like, I have this like vivid memory of the first like few months of school of her just like literally sitting outside the classroom all the time. But I feel like, you know, thinking about back what things were like then versus I'm sure now kids with diabetes, you know, we didn't have glucose monitors. So I was like testing my blood sugar all the time was, you know, always feeling like I couldn't have like what my friends were having when it came to snack time. Or I, you know, vividly remember also sneaking like pink lemonade at school because it's what all my friends wanted and obviously tasted so good. And it's just filled with sugar. As I'm sure all of the diabetics that are listening to this know, you know, it's about 40 grams of sugar, but I just wanted what my friends have. And so like, even, you know, that memory really kind of has fed into my starting swoon. But yeah, I remember so many times just kind of feeling like a little bit left out or like I had to have, you know, my own snack. I couldn't have what all my other friends were having or before I would go to gym class would have to go to the nurse's office, test my blood sugar, all of those things.

[00:04:19] Rob Howe: Yeah. And I think it really stems from that desire to be normal and desire to feel included. And when you're young, it's so difficult to be different. And, you know, I think now we have evolved some of that rhetoric and some to say that, you know, we can do the things that regular kids do, but at the same time, uh, you know, there are those obstacles, dosing insulin, counting carbs, like, uh, you know, are your parents around to help you? Like how independent are you at a certain age? And so, uh, it can be really complicated. And, you know, also, especially early on some of the low carb and like low sugar alternatives just weren't very good, especially for kids, like not

[00:04:54] Jen Ross: very appetizing. No, definitely not. And the crazy thing is, I think when I was diagnosed, the recommendation was like to go like more heavy carbs. So, you know, I have a lot of pastas, which is crazy to think now. And obviously everyone's much more of a low carb diet.

[00:05:11] Rob Howe: Yeah. And I think, you know, as we're continuing to, you know, learn about metabolic health and like, you know, the impact of sugar on the diet, I heard you on another podcast talking about, you know, a big part of, uh, what you're working on at swoon is to give, you know, in America, we've got a huge problem. One in three people live with diabetes right now. And, uh, two out of every three adults are likely pre-diabetic and, uh, you know, we're kind of headed in the wrong direction. And a lot of that has to do with how much sugar we consume in our day-to-day diet.

[00:05:38] Jen Ross: Yeah, that's a huge kind of driver for us here at Swoon. I mean, obviously, as you said, I was diagnosed when I was six. So I've spent my whole life not being able to have sugar, but, you know, as I got older, really realized, you know, it's not just like sugar is bad for me. It's bad for so many people and consuming too much sugar can cause so many terrible things like diabetes, like type 2 diabetes. And so, you know, I always wanted to kind of do something to like give back, if you will. I was never going to be a doctor. I was never going to be a researcher, but given, you know, diabetes is a part of your life. You're what you live with it every day, kind of everything you do, it's always in the back of your mind. So I thought if I could do something to kind of like give back to more on the lifestyle side, that would be helping me, but also so many other people. And I think the thing that I would really excites me or that I love about Swoon, it's not just for even type 1 diabetics, you know, sugar is an issue for everyone. Consuming too much sugar is bad for everyone. And so we really just want to, you know, provide people with great tasting alternatives that aren't filled with sugar, but aren't a, you know, quote unquote diabetic drink. Cause I never want me or anyone else to feel like they have to have something that their other friends don't want. Um, or that's a special

[00:06:54] Rob Howe: thing for them. I often think about that because I I've been doing a lot of like personal research, trying to help communicate the value of like people who don't have diabetes wearing CGMs and like, uh, scientists who are studying metabolic health, using the devices that people with diabetes need to survive. And so, uh, really I I've kind of reframed it in my mind as an advantage. Like we really have this advantage that we understand the impact of sugary beverages and high carb or high sugar meals and what they do to our bodies. Whereas people without diabetes, they don't get to see those spikes. They don't get to feel those flows, ebbs and flows in the blood sugar. And so it's kind of nice to be able to bring somebody in. And in our case, you know, one of our team members doesn't have diabetes. And so we've got all of these low carb, you know, plant based or low sugar products around and they're all delicious. And so we get to bring them in via awesome product like Swoon. and I kind of want to talk to you a little bit about the origin of it because I know it, I think started during grad school at Harvard business school. It was also used to be called be mixed. So I know that some of our listeners will likely have experienced it in the be mixed form. But talk about that, like origin story. Like how did you decide to fully commit to swoon and the idea that became swim?

[00:08:09] Jen Ross: So exactly. Like you said, it started when my partner, Christy and I were in business school and, you know, she was a big host and she's Cuban. And so she was making a mojito and I was at her house and she was pouring in a ton of sugar and kind of like looking at me. I'm like, I can't have that. And she's like, I actually don't want to drink this. Like this was terrible. And kind of had this idea of like, well, again, kind of to exactly what we were saying, like sugar is just bad for everyone. And especially when you're kind of drinking and having cocktails, it's a celebratory moment. It's like, why should you feel bad that when you're doing something fun, but you're still consuming all this sugar. So we started with cocktail mixers kind of taking this like area that people really weren't paying attention to when it came to health or reducing sugar and saying, let's still keep it fun, still keeping it celebratory. And you really don't have to sacrifice. You don't have to compromise on something that's great tasting, but, but, you know, isn't art, isn't natural and all of those things. So that was really the origin with Be Mixed. And as we got, you know, deeper into the beverage industry really realized obviously how much sugar is just in every drink and the opportunity that we have to go beyond cocktail mixers and really kind of look at this stuff. You know, I was like, I said, diagnosed when I was six. So like, what are the things I had, you know, sneaking the pink lemonade? Like that's something that I think so many people can relate to and, and lemonades and iced teas are just such a part of people's daily life.

[00:09:33] Rob Howe: Yeah, it's like a it's a normal like beverage, right? Like if you're not going to choose a soft drink, you probably choose lemonade, right? Especially, you know, I think about like in college, going to, you know, eating out, eating fast food, and it's like, okay, my options are low calorie lemonade or Diet Coke. And that was like pretty much all that I had. so I want to talk a little bit about like early on when what was it like for you like to receive that like first really positive customer feedback from people with diabetes like when you know you guys have poured your heart and souls into this project and then you know finally reach as customers like and what was that moment for you like when you finally like kind of said wow all

[00:10:10] Jen Ross: right we're making an impact you know we would get we did cost our own customer service so we were writing back to people's emails. And so I remember getting an email of someone like, oh, my God, I haven't had a margarita in 15 years. You know, I always felt so left out, like when I would go to parties, and I finally able to have one, you know, or someone saying, like, you know, my dad's diabetic, and I got these for him, he was so happy and excited. So really kind of getting those like, positive stories of people of again, like, it's not the cure, we're not giving, you know, medicine, but it really is just making people kind of feel a part of like everyday life and that they can do what other people are doing or having the things that they feel like they were missing out on for so many years.

[00:10:54] Rob Howe: Definitely. And I think that's a, that's a huge part of it, right? Like diabetes is that difference. It makes you feel like you're left out, makes you feel like you can't be included. And, you know, just to be able to turn the lights on, uh, you know, for what's possible and kind of like give people an option to say, Hey, you know, it seems like a small thing to somebody on the outside, but being able to have a margarita without having to worry about your blood sugar at a party and just enjoy yourself is really a huge thing. Yeah. People

[00:11:19] Jen Ross: don't really realize, you know, having just a sip of a cocktail, everything that's going in the back of your mind, how much insulin do I have to do? Am I going to go low later? How much sugar is in this? It's a lot more than just having, you know, having a toast with someone. Right. It's kind of

[00:11:34] Rob Howe: like the, uh, the hangover meme where there's all the math kind of going around and swirling around your head, right? Exactly. Something that I've noticed over the years of doing this podcast and talking with other people with diabetes who are founders is that there's something about diabetes that sort of inspires innovation and it inspires this kind of a type A mentality was swoon and Be Mixed. Like the first kind of project of yours dedicated to solving a diabetes problem for yourself, or did you have other ideas in the, that sort of just made it on the cutting room floor

[00:12:07] Jen Ross: along the way? That was, you know, Be Mixed. And then Swoon, the first things as like a career that I've done, but I have really always wanted to kind of do something with and help the diabetic community. So actually in high school, I ended up organizing a concert with proceeds going back to JDRF. So again, I really knew my place of, I wasn't going to be on the science side of things, but really always wanted to figure out of like, what can I do to give back? What can I do to make

[00:12:37] Rob Howe: an impact on people's life? I love that. And I think, you know, I often look at my own self as a life with diabetes. And I think, you know, if I had to get any other chronic illness, I'm sort of glad that I have this one. Cause I feel like it resonates with me. I'm able to like do the diabetes math. I am able to manage my therapy and I'm very grateful and very privileged to be able to do so. But also like just to, you know, really digging into that solving problems for other people and digging into the and like those real insights from you as a person living with diabetes. I'm just always so inspired to see how those manifest themselves either in business or in charity endeavors like your like your concert you're talking about. People with diabetes really are like superhuman and they just do amazing, amazing things outside of themselves for each other. Talk to me a little bit about and this is something that I resonate particularly really close with as an entrepreneur. But I really get when I dig into conversations with other founders, startups are risky inherently, like, obviously, I think they're like the status like 110 startups fail within the first year, diabetes really multiplies that risk and that risk tolerance, because of, you know, losing health insurance, or, you know, health insurance options when you're self employed, cost of insulin, test strips, medical devices. Did you have those conversations with your co-founder early on? Did that, uh, did that hang over any of your early

[00:13:59] Jen Ross: days at, as Swoon? Yeah, it definitely did. And I think it's still, you know, today as still a small company impacts that we actually just went through our health insurance renewal and, you know, we did too. It's always painful, very limiting of what you can offer, but being diabetic, I'm also very aware of having a chronic illness and what that can mean. Um, you know, it's not, I'm definitely not someone that just goes to a doctor once a year and, you know, kind of thinks everything's OK. There are a lot of, you know, medications, the insulin, everything. So also making sure that we can offer our employees kind of a quote unquote like rich health insurance plan, which is not necessarily so normal for startups kind of to be able to really offer the gamut of different options. So that's something that we did think about initially starting. But then again, still comes up, you know, every year or thinking about what else are other people, you know, whether it's not diabetes, like what are the other things that they're dealing with that I might not realize?

[00:14:59] Rob Howe: I think though, looking back at, cause we're very similar, uh, in the way that we're thinking about this from our corporate perspectives, uh, you know, we just went through our renewal at recreation and, uh, I have two employees that also live with diabetes. And so I think it's really, you know, for an employee at a company, I think it's really an advantage to have a founder with a chronic illness because they are looking at that lens through the same way that, you know, that somebody else would with a chronic illness and more able-bodied founders maybe just wouldn't even think of that. Like you said, uh, people that go to the doctor just once a year, they, you know, health insurance is probably way down the list of priorities, but for somebody with diabetes and especially a founder, it's, it's really important to look at, you got to look at those copay costs. You got to look at that out of pocket. Uh, and that stuff, I don't know about you. I always, that's like my least favorite negotiation all year long, because I have like no leverage. I just have to go in and

[00:15:50] Jen Ross: take whatever they give me. I know that's the problem. There's re it's really, really hard as

[00:15:55] Rob Howe: a startup to get great plans. So talk to me really quick. As I was preparing for this interview, listened to another podcast episode, read some articles. Your team has done a great job of telling the Swoon story kind of all over. I want to ask you, what's a maybe favorite Jennifer Ross diabetes story that maybe you haven't told before? Man, this could be from childhood, could be from adulthood, something that just stands out as like a memorable diabetes moment. and I put you on the spot I'm sorry um

[00:16:34] Jen Ross: well it's not really so much from childhood but I was just traveling so this made me think of it I don't know what everyone uses now when they have a low blood sugar well I've now kind of transitioned to using like the g blocks like the like Gatorade stuff that most runners use and they're easy, put them in my purse all the time. But for whatever reason, when I was younger, I used to carry around like the four ounce things of Mott's apple juice. Why we decide, my mom decided to use that. I guess I like, like if I were low, I would drink it. They were easy and portable, but they were cans, they would break. And I just remember actually in college being abroad and like traveled with all of these apple juices and every, and there were more than three ounces. So every time I would go through security, I would always get stopped. And, you know, I would always have to carry like an extra bag of all my diabetes stuff. And it was just really funny because I was traveling this week and just feeling so grateful and lucky that like all my diabetes stuff just fit in one bag. I didn't get stopped. I didn't have any liquids on

[00:17:38] Rob Howe: me. Um, and just how, how different things are now. The, the TSA versus diabetes battle continues used to be a struggle. I, I, uh, I traveled last week and I had a, uh, some Haribo gummy bears as my kind of like backup low snacks in my bag. And they had to like, stop and look at it. They're like, what is this? And it's like a brick of gummy bears, like this big. And they're like, okay, yeah, uh, these are fine. But, uh, they were looking at me, uh, you know, a grown man, uh, with my gummy bears, uh, had to laugh about that for sure. Yep. Uh, so what is next for swoon and, What should our listeners keep an eye on here in the swoon news here in the coming weeks, months?

[00:18:18] Jen Ross: Yeah, I mean, we're still really new. We just launched our line of Lemonades and Iced Teas about two years ago. So we're really continuing to expand more distribution. We have some exciting new retailers that we're going to be launching with this year and really kind of just getting all of our products out there. So really, really focused on just like that distribution and obviously with awareness and getting awareness along with it.

[00:18:42] Rob Howe: And speaking of like, where is Swoon sold and like, where could listeners find it if they, if they were craving some Amazon.

[00:18:49] Jen Ross: So depending, that's definitely something everyone can get. And you can also go to our website, tasteswoon.com, but we're in Whole Foods. We're in Targets. We are about to launch into the fresh market in the Southeast Meijer in Michigan. And Albertsons in Texas. So a little bit all over the place.

[00:19:08] Rob Howe: Well, that's awesome. Well, we will. Yeah. And via Foxtrot, which you can have delivered if you live in Dallas or I think Chicago as well. So we love GoPuff around here for sure. I'm going to include I make sure to include all of the links that you just mentioned in the show notes. So if you're listening to this in your car or on your phone or wherever you might be, you can go to the show notes and find the links to everywhere that Swoon is sold. and Jennifer I do have I kind of have a closing question I've been really working on trying to ask better like questions for my guests and really evolve we've done a lot of these podcasts almost 250 now over the years and you know I got to get better at asking questions it's always like a process of ongoing improvement so let me see what you think of this one so if you could you yourself today go back in time and write like a message on the mirror to your younger self and you know what I mean like in movies where they like write messages and the steam from the shower makes it all dramatic and there's like the secret code language, whatever. So if you could do that to your younger self and give yourself one piece of advice about diabetes, what do you think it would be?

[00:20:14] Jen Ross: It's not that big of a deal. And I don't mean that as like to forget about it and don't pay attention, but that you really can do anything and it can kind of, you just can fold it into your life and that it almost becomes, unfortunately, like a secondary afterthought that's like always there, but it does, it's not your first thought. And so you can really can kind of continue with everything and it's not going to stop you from doing anything or be this like overwhelming presence in your day-to-day life.

[00:20:46] Rob Howe: Where do you think that like idea, like that strength and kind of like ideology came from? Because I know I'm very similar, you know, when I was diagnosed, you were talking about your mom. And I think of my mom and my parents, like they really gave me this great foundation and I had this great care team. Uh, and for me, it was, I wanted to be an athlete. So they said, Hey, if you take care of your diabetes, you can go be the athlete you want to be. So it was always this sort of step to the next thing that I wanted. Uh, where did you think that that kind of like strength and outlook came from, uh, in your life with diabetes? I mean, I think definitely for my

[00:21:17] Jen Ross: parents and my family, I think, you know, when I was diagnosed when I was six, so much of it was my mom doing everything kind of for me, but she really did everything. And so I really kind of saw what I needed to do to be able to kind of take control and manage it myself. And so I think, you know, she definitely let me do that. I think, and then working with the doctors and everyone, you know, for her to get comfortable, for me to get comfortable, but really to kind of be able to be independent. And I think, you know, from the beginning, they, my parents never wanted it to kind of prevent me from doing everything. So it's like, give me all the tools so I can do whatever I want. Um, and just make sure that I'm being, it's being managed well. Well, it certainly hasn't

[00:22:02] Rob Howe: stopped you. And, uh, I'm so glad to have the time to speak with you today and for all that you're doing for people with diabetes and people without diabetes at tasteswoon.com. You guys can go check that out and, uh, and follow a swoon on social media as well. We'll tag everybody in our Instagram and post for this episode. Jennifer, thank you so much for the time today. I guess Jen is more than just using the government name. I don't, when people call me Robert, I always get a weird vibe. So I get it. But thank you so much for your time and for all that you're doing for people with

[00:22:31] Jen Ross: diabetes. Thanks. So great to talk to you, Rob.