Diabetics Doing Mastering Diabetes Through Insulin Absorption with Robby Barbaro

[00:00:00] Rob Howe: Hello everyone, Rob Howe here, and welcome to the Diabetics Doing Things podcast. Just wanted to let you know that if you've been listening all the way to this point from the beginning, you're inching ever closer to hearing over 1,000 years of living with type 1 diabetes. Now, certainly there are some similarities in how we all deal with the disease, but I find it super rewarding to dig into the tactics, tips, mindsets, and insights that make us all different. If you hear something new, interesting, or polarizing, drop me a line. I'd love to discuss it. Holler at me on Instagram or shoot me an email. Okay, let's get back to the episode. Hello and welcome back to another episode of Diabetics Doing Things. We are telling the amazing stories of diabetics from all across the world. And my very special guest today, the mindful diabetic, Robbie Barbaro from Mastering Diabetes. Robbie, welcome to the show. I'm really excited to be here. Thank you for having me. Yeah, and I imagine that a lot of our listeners have encountered you in some way or at least seen some of the amazing photos that you take on Instagram? I think you might have one of the most colorful Instagram accounts out there.

[00:01:04] Robby Barbaro: Well, thank you very much. I just – I love sharing my lifestyle. It's just had such an amazing impact on my life. I really just like doing everything I can to raise awareness for this option. So Cyrus and I, we have run a coaching program, and we just want people to know that if they want to live a lifestyle like the one that we're living, they can do it. It's a possibility. So I use Instagram as one of those avenues. And you're right. Things are colorful and I love those colors.

[00:01:40] Rob Howe: Yeah, it's funny. I'm looking at Robbie right now and even behind him is just a shelf full of fruit. So he's really – it's all real, guys. He's living and breathing it. Yep, it's real. So why don't you tell us a little bit about, before we kind of dive into mastering diabetes and some of the philosophies that you guys go and live by, tell us a little bit about your type 1 diagnosis story and how you came to join the T1D family.

[00:02:08] Robby Barbaro: Yeah. So I have two older brothers. My middle older brother also has type 1 diabetes. So he was diagnosed before me. and I remember as a kid, we would hide the sweets from him, so the desserts were in a special spot and all that stuff. So I never really knew a lot of the details about it, but I just observed him dealing with type 1 diabetes. And there was a time when my parents were in Florida. We were living in Minnesota, and my parents were in Florida looking at homes. We were going to move there for my mom to take care of her parents and for me to have better opportunities for tennis. I was a competitive tennis player. I was ranked number one in 10s, 12s, and 14s and didn't have much competition up there. So my parents are in Florida looking at houses and for a couple weeks prior to my parents leaving, I would tell my mom, I was like, mom, I am thirsty all the time. I'm have diabetes like Steven. And she was like, no, no, don't be silly. And so she's in Florida and just calling to check in how things are going at home. And it's in the morning. I'm like, mom, I didn't, I couldn't sleep last night. I was cramping all night. It's just terrible. And she's like, okay, go upstairs and use your brother's blood sugar meter. So I go upstairs and I test myself and it was above 400. It was in like the 400s. And my brother's like, yep, you have type type 1 diabetes, like pack your bag, you're going to be in the hospital for a few days. So we go to the general doctor and they run some tests, probably, I don't know exactly what test they ran, but they ran some tests and then they said, yep, you have type 1 diabetes. And I remember sitting in that room, my brother started crying, he's like, oh, I'm just so sorry, you have to deal with this. And then it didn't really hit me yet at that point. and then I go to the hospital and my parents came home that night so I only had to stay there one night because my parents obviously knew how to deal with type 1 diabetes and you know that was it it was never it was never really that that big of a deal honestly um it's just kind of like just transitioning to doing whatever I had to do I'm always I'm a very like on top of the type of person. So I started counting my carbs and being really careful with dosing and obviously being in the honeymoon stage helps things out. My parents were all about trying to give us the best medical care possible. So we lived in St. Cloud, Minnesota, and we would drive to Rochester, Minnesota to go to the Mayo Clinic. So every once, I think maybe every three months or something, maybe every six months, I forget. But we would go take a trip to the Mayo Clinic and do like a thorough evaluation there. You'd see an endocrinologist, you'd see a nutritionist, a psychologist, the whole team. And, you know, I was a competitive tennis player. So always being active, I think, helped me manage type 1 diabetes. My, you know, my A1Cs never really got out of control. I think the highest was somewhere in the mid sevens or so. Um, and you know, that was it. I was just following the standard American diet, eating, eating everything normal and, um, and managing

[00:05:38] Rob Howe: type 1 diabetes. Yeah. I think that's like the most interesting context of a, uh, of a diagnosis that I've heard. Cause you know, there's, it pretty much runs the gamut of whether it's an emergency or, you know, everybody has basically the same symptoms. Uh, you go to the doctor, you go to the emergency clinic, you go to the hospital, emergency room. But I don't think I've ever heard anybody that use their brother's meter. And then after he sees the number, he's like, oh, well, you better pack your bag. That was pretty crazy. So what was that like for you, I think, and him? Were you as close before the diagnosis or as close as brothers are at that age? That's a great question.

[00:06:21] Robby Barbaro: um so me when i was growing up so steve is the middle brother the oldest brother is pj me and steve didn't really get along that much there's a lot of situations where like he would beat up on me and then my older brother would go beat up on him um and when we got the when the type 1 thing happened i think maybe we got a little bit closer but um in general i don't think we were ever like super close but i think now these days like later on in life like my family like we're all like pretty close and really good but growing up um it didn't really didn't really do that much honestly and and how old were you when you were diagnosed i was 12 okay and i'm i'm 29

[00:07:03] Rob Howe: now so that's like 17 years so 17 years living with t1d um competitive tennis let's talk a little bit about that i was an athlete as well um a basketball player uh so i imagine you spent some time uh it's interesting this is like the parallels uh talking about florida did you ever spend any time at the nick boletieri or img academy or anything like that yeah so i was

[00:07:31] Robby Barbaro: there was another academy there which changed names a few times it was originally stern's academy and then it was like longwood academy so i trained there but i certainly knew of voluntary and you would see those players at tournaments and all that stuff but i didn't

[00:07:48] Rob Howe: actually train there okay so always a small world so you gotta always gotta ask so for you as a as a 12 year old now you know going into and playing competitive tennis for those that don't know like tennis is super competitive all the way up from like eight years old and even before i'm sure just really really really highly competitive at the at the top levels and for you as an athlete and as a type 1, how did that, how did that come into play? Do you remember like any big adjustments? Um, you know, obviously like they give you the, the literature at the doctor and you do your best to, you know, try to follow it and get your levels right. But as you know, life with diabetes can be unexpected. Uh, anything that stands out or you remember?

[00:08:32] Robby Barbaro: Yeah. You know, uh, thinking back on it, I just, I wish I had some, you know, dramatic story to tell or something. But honestly, it was just, it wasn't that big of a deal. I don't know. I just, I, I used the logbook, you know, the Mayo Clinic has filling out a logbook and, you know, you just make the, the common sense adjustment of taking less insulin before playing a match and testing yourself pretty frequently before, during, and after the match and adjusting and snacking on, you know whatever you need when necessary and it just generally wasn't that big of a deal i never really got to a point where also i was always pretty good at keeping things pretty fairly in range um and i never really got to a point where i was like oh i'm playing terrible because i'm high or something like that um and i was pretty good at not not going low while playing so it really wasn't it wasn't that big of an adjustment that's good and i think you

[00:09:36] Rob Howe: know part of that is probably just the preparation like you said you're an on top of it type of guy for sure and just owning that piece of it and i think that's a big part of whether whether you're that type of person or not like you sort of have to become one uh i kind of i've met a lot of people that are sort of type a type ones uh where their diabetes makes them a more type a personality type person uh which i find really interesting obviously because like everything is just that extra step, whether it's testing, whether it's packing supplies for a weekend trip or whatever that is. As you kind of grew up and you grew as a person, obviously, with diabetes, anything in particular stand out as like going to college or moving out on your own before we get into the mastering diabetes type conversation?

[00:10:27] Robby Barbaro: Yeah. I'm trying to think. Really, nothing. that significant until I started to change my diet. Like that's when things took a shift.

[00:10:41] Rob Howe: And what was the trigger point for that? You know, like you said, things are pretty imbalanced or it wasn't necessarily a dire situation where you had to make the change. What was it for you personally that kind of drove that?

[00:10:54] Robby Barbaro: So initially my, when we were living in Minnesota, my dad was part of selling supplements, It's like a network marketing thing. And my whole progression in diet and lifestyle has just – it's like been one small thing after another. And initially, all the new teaching points that I had, they made sense. Like they were logical every step of the way. So at the beginning, you know, my dad was – part of the pitch was that our food is not grown in nutritious soil anymore. so therefore it's really smart to add some supplements to your diet. It's like, okay, I mean, there's some logic there. I can get that. And then it just kept on being one more logical thing after another to a certain extent. And eventually it was like, hey, grass-fed beef is better than factory-farmed beef. And eating food products with a bunch of additives and preservatives and all these words that you can't even read or understand is a good idea to start avoiding those things. And organic is better than conventional with various foods. And it kept on being a progression. And so also I remember my dad was into some Chinese medicine stuff and I took some pills and that made a little bit of a difference as far as needing a little bit less insulin, but I didn't really stick with that. um and i guess the the primary motivation was just i just genuinely had a natural interest in just being the healthiest i could i don't i wasn't i don't think it necessarily was type 1 diabetes i think that certainly helped uh further the interest in figuring out how what's the best way to live but i i think i had that innately even before type 1 diabetes yeah it's always

[00:12:48] Rob Howe: interesting to hear people's progressions and like the foundation uh that kind of starts them off uh i was a little bit similar my my mom owned a curves franchise so uh for years you know she was a you know nutritionist and she was helping women with a lot of times with type 2 diabetes with a1c's in the like 15 range and coming home and being like well you know there are people out there who are living like this and you know if they'd only you know do these do these things or whatever the next trend was so it's interesting to hear you talk about you know your progression from the information that you were getting from your dad as well right absolutely and then i mean

[00:13:27] Robby Barbaro: you want me to tell you the whole story yeah give me the story give me give me the so eventually eventually what happened is so we moved to florida and i've just i'm getting i'm into like the healthy world you know i'm listening i'm reading podcasts i'm reading blogs i'm in high school i'm just into this stuff i'm into you know sustainability and all those you know that stuff. And at some point I was, uh, shopping at Barnes and Noble for some, some stuff for school. It was probably like a spark notes book or something. And I'm at Barnes and Noble and this book just basically calls my name and, you know, virtually falls off the shelf for me. And it's called Kevin Trudeau's natural cures. They don't want you to know about. And this book was a big deal when it came out. This guy had infomercials and he was just a big deal. So I pick up this book and I read it. And somewhere in that book, I don't know exactly what the sentence was. I don't know what he was referencing. I can't forget. But something in that book planted a seed in my mind where I was like, I had this belief that it's, he said, the book somehow made me believe, gave me this idea that it's possible to reverse type 1 diabetes. Like if I live healthfully and take care of myself, the body can heal itself and can generate some new beta cells and I am going to heal type 1 diabetes. So I read that book and just planted the seed and I just went on, I just went as far as I could. Like anything I could possibly be presented with that's like, oh, that's a healthier decision, I would do it. And my thought process was the smartest people in the world when told Roger Bannister that there's no way you can run a four-minute mile. So the smartest, the greatest scientist, all the science, whatever, best smartest people said, this is not scientifically possible. Your heart will explode, blah, blah, blah, like you can't do it. And then all of a sudden, Roger Bannister does it. And now people run a four-minute mile left, right, and center. So this is like, you know what, like, there's always people in the history saying things can't be done. And then somebody figures it out. And then a bunch of people do it. So and I still have that mindset. I don't know exactly how it's going to happen or what the solution is. But I believe in that concept overall, and that some way, shape or form, we will find a way to, you know, regenerate beta cells. And so anyways, initially, you know, this is over 10 years ago now. This is 2006. I was just like all about this. And so I started making lifestyle changes. And eventually, there was one point where I came across the reversing diabetes in 30 days movie. So it's this movie that Gabriel Cousins made where there are six people that come to his lifestyle center in Arizona. And there was one particular guy, his name is Kurt Tyson, who, this is my recollection of the story. If I get it incorrect, you can correct me and send an email let me know my understanding is that they casted people before the cast of people for the movie and kurt tyson had been very recently diagnosed and apparently he hadn't really gone to the doctor to figure out his his blood work and see exactly what his c-peptide level was so when he went to go do the film which is you know it's like 30 days living at this retreat center. He didn't know, he thought he was a type 2 diabetic and so did everybody else while they're filming the movie. So he goes there and he follows the Gabriel Cousins program, which is a very, very low carbohydrate diet. It's lots and lots of vegetables and some higher fat ingredients for some calories. And he goes there and he basically like doesn't need insulin anymore. He gets off insulin. He's like healed. And then he goes back home. And I think he gets a report on his blood work. And my understanding is that the C-peptide level showed that he was technically a type 1. So I got in touch with him. I had a phone call with him. The guy was super nice, very encouraging. And I'm like, okay, I'm going to do exactly what he did. So I follow the Gabriel Cousins program. And I did that to a T for like 30 days. uh it's very low carb like lots of almond butter lots of lots and lots of green celery all that stuff cashews stuff like that no fruit and i followed that for like about one month 30 days and by the end of it i was i just had no energy i was blacking out on campus um it just wasn't wasn't going well. I did get to the lowest total insulin usage that I had ever had. So my total insulin, I think, was roughly 10 or 11 units while I was doing this super, super low carb thing.

[00:18:40] Rob Howe: And I was- Now is that 10 or 11 units a day? Yeah, total, total. So basal and bolus.

[00:18:47] Robby Barbaro: yes it was crazy low crazy low and um so anyways i'm doing that and i was getting super excited because as i'm doing this my i'm like i'm needing less and less insulin i'm like okay wow i'm gonna have the same result that kurt has and anyways i don't want to get too lost here but the one thing i want to point out is is my understanding in kurt tyson's story and again if i should get in touch with Kurt because I know he's around. I think he's becoming a naturopathic doctor. But my understanding is that I don't think his C-peptide level is back at a normal range. So I think that completely reversing type 1 diabetes would be where your own beta cells are producing plenty of insulin and your C-peptide is right where a normal C-peptide is. So there are examples of people i think there's some other people out there other than just kurt who successfully execute a super super low carb diet like a ketogenic diet and are able to take very little or no insulin and keep their blood glucose in range and that's basically because you're following a diet that requires such a small amount of insulin you're running on a different ecosystem essentially which is different than completely healing it and actually having beta cells produce insulin again So anyways, that's a side story.

[00:20:07] Rob Howe: Yeah, and I think part of that too, just given the context, and I'm not familiar with the story, and I'm just – so if you got some facts wrong and now I'm thinking of these wrong facts and I'm pushing forward, then someone please correct us. We'll get it right. But the – I know that there are research organizations, and I'm blanking on the one that works with JDRF most primarily. because when I go and I talk to newly diagnosed families, they take some blood from the family members to see if they are at risk for, I think it might be measuring the C-peptide levels to see if those levels are at a point where they could develop type 1 diabetes because what they also do is now when someone is recently diagnosed, they try to treat them in order to save the remaining beta cells. so i think those those types of diets especially if those beta cells could be saved are you know at a place where it could be sustainable anyway sorry to cut you off i had to just stick that in

[00:21:06] Robby Barbaro: there yeah for sure of course so so anyways i mean not to get too sidetracked here it's a fascinating topic though you should honestly you should try and get kurt tyson on your podcast and have him tell his whole story let's let's just let's get the whole record straight yeah i've uh

[00:21:22] Rob Howe: I've scribbled down his name. We're going to figure it out.

[00:21:26] Robby Barbaro: Perfect. Love it. Okay. So anyways, I'm getting super inspired by that. I started doing the program, the Gabriel Cousins thing. And at this point, I'm sort of – I'm in the raw food world at this point. So Gabriel Cousins was – he probably still is part of what would be considered the raw food movement. There's a lot of different opinions and people in the raw food world. I'm listening to their podcast. I'm on their newsletters. I'm learning. At this point, I am a freshman in college. I should also go back and say, before that, I tried the Weston A. Price Foundation program. That was before I found about Gabriel Cousins and all that. That's a program where it's about grass-fed dairy, grass-fed beef, stuff like that. And that didn't go so well. but anyways I tried the Gabriel Cousins thing I'm listening to podcasts and really I was struggling I'm like I am trying so so hard uh to do everything I possibly can right I'm feeling terrible my insulin dosage is low but it also hit like a plateau it didn't keep going down it stayed roughly around 10-ish and um so I don't know what to do so I go back to this naturopathic doctor that I had seen in the past while I was doing all kinds of dietary things. And she suggests, you know, maybe you try some chelation therapy, which is like very expensive and like you hook up to these like IVs or something. And I was like, okay, I'll think about it. And again, at this point, I'm like, I'll do anything. I'm just trying to heal my body. I'm trying to give my body the best chance of regenerating its own beta cells. That's the mindset. that and so i hear a podcast with this guy doug graham and he's talking about a fruit diet like how fruit is really great and healthy and all the benefits of fruit i'm like okay this sounds amazing and so he and i love fruit and i was missing fruit at that point and he talks about this new book he has coming out it's called the 80 10 10 diet and the book wasn't out yet so it was promoting it. He said, it's coming soon. So I pre-order it. And I had to wait probably about three months for the book to come out. And in between that time, I started learning from other people, similar experts saying similar things. And I started eating a bunch more fruit. And I started feeling good again. Now, my total insulin usage starts to go back up a little bit, more like a normal type 1. But my insulin sensitivity, like the amount of insulin taken for carbohydrate it consumed improves dramatically as I start doing this fruit-based approach.

[00:24:12] Rob Howe: So basically, you're eating more carbs but needing less insulin to treat them.

[00:24:19] Robby Barbaro: Yes, exactly. The ratio changes. Correct. But the total insulin goes up a little bit. So anyways, but that's just the way it works. Yeah, yeah, totally. It makes sense. Just want to make sure for clarification. For sure. For sure, 100%. So, um, so anyways, December comes around, this book comes out, the 80, 10, 10 diet. I read the book. I'm just blown away. I'm like, this is fascinating. I love this. And there was a testimonial in the book. And one of those testimonials in the original copy of 80, 10, 10 is Cyrus Khambatta, uh, who is now, we're now working together and co-founders of Mastering Diabetes. And his story was super inspiring about how he adopted this diet and was super active and healthy and just loving life. so I start working with Doug Graham I do a consultation with him and we um we email each other every single day for 90 days straight every single day I emailed him he emailed me back and I got to know him really well I got to know this whole program very well and executed it to a T and I was feeling amazing my insulin sensitivity was absolutely terrific I'm eating so many carbs I mean, I don't know, 600, 700, 800 grams of carbs per day, depending on how active I was, how much I ate, and taking what is, you know, a average amount of insulin, somewhere between like 30 and 40 units or so a day, again, depending on activity. And I'm feeling good. I'm feeling great. Like, okay, I'm being optimistic. Okay, if I keep on doing this and just eating healthy, like living a very clean diet, I'm literally eating nothing but fruits and vegetables. I mean, there's nothing processed, there's no package, there's just, there's no garbage in my diet. It's as clean as can be. And that goes on for a while. So and now it's like 10 years later, I'm still eating the same diet. But originally, I was like, if I just keep on, if I master the diet, then I still believe I'm going to heal this. I'm going to figure this out. My body's going to heal itself. And now 10 years later, I would be confident in saying that it's not whatever solution is going to happen. And I believe it. It's going to happen. It's not just dietary. I think there's some other components here that we got to figure out. as a community of what to do to live well and somehow find a way for new beta cells to be produced. And if there are new ones produced, them not being destroyed by some sort of either, you know, autoimmune activity or a virus or, you know, there's different opinions out there. But that's a general gist of the story there. I hope that wasn't too long.

[00:26:51] Rob Howe: No, no, not at all. I think, you know, digging into the details is really important. I want to try to go back to a couple things. please a i think it's easy to because i've had i've had conversations with other just diabetic type 1 friends and people who are active in the community and especially people who also mentor people whether health and wellness or fitness or diabetes journey whatever um who talk about people who are actively and who are similar to you in some ways who are believe that there is a cure to be found out there. I think for me, it's hard to, and I have a friend who's very big into natural healing and actually came on the podcast very early on. And she went through a big struggle because she effectively was trying to find ways to live without insulin. And I think the way she approached it maybe was not the way that I recommend it, but I appreciate the way that you are looking at it understanding that and this is me paraphrasing basically your your entire story but saying you know that you believe that there is something out there and you're gonna leave no stone unturned until you figure out what that might be until it becomes like the four minute mile where you know everybody said it's impossible and you've but you know they didn't keep looking and then finally it happened and everybody's doing it um and it reminded me of a story is it was in phil jackson's book uh 11 rings which i i recommend um where he was talking about the the journey of a season is very similar to a basketball season is very similar to the journey of life where um often you just learn more things along the way than you ever could have learned with just getting a cure or getting exactly what you want um and and so and so yeah i think i think it's fascinating to hear from your perspective you know as you're going through the different things because, for example, I'm sure at some point someone said, well, the grass-fed diet is the way to, you know, cure, quote-unquote, cure type 1 diabetes. And, you know, I love hearing you say, well, yeah, I tried that and it didn't work for me. Yeah. And I like the distinction you

[00:29:03] Robby Barbaro: made there, which is a very important one. The idea of trying to heal type 1 diabetes through doing some, you know, what I feel comfortable labing is like irrational activity, like not taking insulin or, you know, doing like a fast or something or a dry fast. I've definitely heard stories of people or, you know, a religious thing going on where like somebody says, you know, this, this religious entity is going to heal you. So just don't eat or something, you know, stuff like that. That's like stuff I want nothing to do with and do not support. I'm just trying to, you know, live healthfully and obviously manage type 1 diabetes. That's a top priority. I do it every single day. I do it quite well, but, um, you know, figuring out a way to, to heal in a

[00:29:46] Rob Howe: healthy way. Yeah, a hundred percent. And I, and I love that. And I think that, you know, we're all looking to, or, you know, I say that loosely because I'll make another point. It's easy to think that we're all trying to live a healthy lifestyle with type 1, a healthy relationship, whatever that is, whether that's understanding what our true ratio is or finding the treatment method that looks is right for us or the diet or the exercise regimen. But what I've been trying and challenging myself to do is to get out of my type 1 diabetes bubble a little bit and realize that, you know, there's a large percentage of people, especially in rural areas who don't prioritize health. So it's easy to see in sort of our social media, Instagram world of a lot of people who are focused on health and wellness and fitness and a lot of people who are living, you know, perpetuating an excellent lifestyle and relationship with their type 1 diabetes. But it's easy to forget that there are those out there too who potentially just have misinformation or who it's not a priority. So I also wanted to challenge that bubble by talking to people like you who are on the, you know, on the cutting edge, on the bleeding edge of living a healthy lifestyle and looking for that solution to the, you know, the challenge of regenerating beta cells in a healthy way. So, um, I'm, I'm now the one doing all the talking and getting to my question, but what I would say is, uh, for somebody, what, what would you say to someone who is, you know, has it, has that in their mind and maybe is, is approaching that question the wrong way. Like you met, like my friend that I mentioned in terms of, um, you know, trying to live life without insulin, without seeing all of the full holistic treatment options?

[00:31:30] Robby Barbaro: Okay. So here's what I would say. First and foremost, I think that the community at large would benefit from understanding that insulin is not the enemy. So there's a lot of people who, you know, you read articles on the internet, you know, too much insulin and, you know, you'll gain weight and all. It's just like insulin's not really given that good of a name to a certain extent. And that's obviously more towards people living with type 2. But in general, people are still like freaked out about insulin. And there's this idea of, you know, the less and less I can take, the better. And that's not really the case. Really, as people living with type 1, we just want to get to a place where we are injecting somewhere close to what our body would normally produce on its own. Now, exogenous insulin and endogenous insulin are a little bit different in the way they function and all that. So, you know, you can't get that number exactly the same. but you just want to be in the ballpark range. And insulin is not the enemy. It's not bad. You just want to be in an appropriate range. And we can live a super high quality life. And especially with our technology these days, there's just no reason to let it hold anyone back from doing really whatever they want to do in life. So I just focus on, you just focus on managing it very well. And honestly, for me and Cyrus, we view it as something that's actually improved our overall health. I mean, it's been a wake-up call to force us to sort of – or guide us to look into better ways of living and taking care of ourselves. And our overall health is actually better now.

[00:33:13] Rob Howe: Yeah, I 100% agree. I think – you think it's funny to think about 100 years ago there was no other option. You know, we weren't even making exogenous insulin at that point. Right. That it wasn't in production, didn't exist. So, you know, how many people back then, you know, that, you know, were dying and didn't even know what they were dying of? Exactly. For you, I wanted to just get a little bit of clarification for you because I'm not an expert on this. So you talked about getting to a natural level of exogenous insulin that we would normally produce if we weren't, if we didn't have type 1 diabetes. Is there a range of units within that range or is it very per individual?

[00:33:57] Robby Barbaro: You know, actually there is a formula that you can use to calculate on I believe it's height and weight. But honestly, I don't have in front of me. When you interview Cyrus, ask Cyrus that question. Okay, cool. I will hold that for Cyrus.

[00:34:12] Rob Howe: Yeah, mostly just curious more than anything else. um so you obviously and you you and cyrus and uh with mastering diabetes you guys provide coaching and consulting for both type 1 and type 2 diabetics um correct so how do these conversations uh you know when you guys are having and i don't want to obviously you know give away the secret sauce on uh for free but i'm happy to give away the secret sauce man let's give your viewers the best interview ever hey i love it okay then uh then let's get to it so so if we're you know we're coming in and you guys are assessing a a new client's relationship with uh with their diet or with type 1 or with our type 2 for that matter um what are those conversations typically like what do you see um are a lot of issues maybe misinformation that's out there for people that uh that's affecting the population at large okay so i'll tell you what

[00:35:09] Robby Barbaro: this is what we do. We work with people of any form of diabetes, whether it's type 1, type 1.5, pre-diabetes, type 2. And the thing that we address, the whole focus of our company and our coaching practice is we teach people how to reverse insulin resistance or maximize insulin sensitivity, however you want to say it. And so we all know that the cause of type 2 diabetes and the cause of pre-diabetes is insulin resistance. That is the problem. Those people are producing plenty of insulin. They're just not using it properly. Now, what's not talked about enough is that people living with type 1 and type 1.5 are also challenged by insulin resistance. So, the blood glucose roller coaster and having it difficult to manage blood glucose and you're all over the place and you're high and you can't get down and all that stuff is very much related to people living with insulin resistance. So, when a type 1 joins our program and starts following what we're saying, their insulin sensitivity goes through the roof, and their predictability about what's going to happen with their blood glucose also becomes a heck of a lot better. I mean, of course, it's not perfect. There is no perfect in type 1 diabetes. So, but the point is, we're reversing insulin resistance. And what is insulin resistance? That is when there is too much fat stored in tissues that are not designed to store fat. That is what insulin resistance is. And when you change your diet and follow a diet where you're not eating too much, you're eating just the amount you need, then insulin resistance starts to go away and people start to get to it. If you're pre-diabetes type 2 and you're producing plenty, the disease essentially goes away. And you're type 1, you now have far better health, your blood glucose is much more predictable, and if you feel great, you have energy again. So, I mean, that's the key of what we do. We reverse insulin resistance.

[00:37:07] Rob Howe: Awesome. And I think an excellent explanation. I wanted, I really liked one thing above all else in particular, if you've never said another thing to me, I'd still think to hold this in the highest, just revere in the highest quality. So you said there's no such thing as a perfect diabetic. And I've talked to multiple guests on this podcast about the idea of a perfect diabetic. And I think perpetuating that idea out in social media can be also, you know, there's a lot of not danger, I would say, but it could be easy to look at other people who are publicly facing diabetic, either influencers or personalities and say, oh, well, my diabetes is worse than this person, or they are better diabetic than I am. And it's so great to hear you say, somebody who's actively pursuing and looking, flipping over every stone they can to try to find a way to – around type 1 diabetes and a solution to say, hey, there are days you're riding that insulin roller coaster. Blood sugars are high and low. And there's no such thing as perfect.

[00:38:10] Robby Barbaro: A hundred percent. I mean it's anybody living with type 1 diabetes. Like we all – you're sort of like you said in the beginning, like the type 1 club or whatever you call it. Like we all have a just a unique connection in that we have this experience that you can you just cannot understand unless you have experienced that you just can't. And this whole concept of us trying to inject the appropriate amount of insulin to match what we're eating. It's just it's difficult. Like there's just no way around it. That is a challenging thing. and everybody else who has a pancreas that's functioning, their body is doing that with its infinite wisdom far beyond our comprehension. And it just doesn't matter how hard you try. It's just not going to be perfect, and that's okay. And I know people, anybody who watches my What I Ate We Eat In A Day videos, they can see that it's not perfect. It goes up, it goes down. It's just part of life.

[00:39:05] Rob Howe: It is, and I think on Instagram, you're the mindful diabetic Robbie. I think like there's been a few things in this conversation where you're just very mindful. You're a very mindful person. And it's like, hey, that's you're looking at these things and say, hey, that's interesting or noticing these things and making adjustments based on them. And I think that's an important part of being I mean, obviously, just any anyone. But as a type 1 as well, like, oh, I ate this and dose my normal insulin for it. But I still had a different reaction. That's interesting. and asking those questions and looking at those different behaviors and those different days. For you, what's your mindfulness practice? Is that something that you found along the way as well to help in your diabetes journey or is that more of a personal decision?

[00:39:57] Robby Barbaro: You know, that's a great question. I wouldn't say I have a mindful practice, although I think I should. I have several friends that are consistent with their meditating and things like that. I'm always like, man, I should really get in that game. Lately, I have been trying to go to the beach every morning and just spend some time out there. I guess that would be part of a mindful practice. But in general, I'm just trying to be aware of the decisions I'm making, the foods I'm putting in my body, the attention I'm giving to being active and really just just trying to be aware I mean that's really the way I see the whole mindful thing it's just really just being aware and and just

[00:40:46] Rob Howe: making the best decisions that I can yeah totally agree and I think you know I that's been one of the things in 2017 a mindfulness practice that I've actually picked up a little bit been following a little bit uh inconsistent with it lately but it was one of those things that was very similar to you it's like i had some friends who were saying hey man i'm getting a lot out of this and i was like yeah well okay i should probably look into it and then uh was able to do uh really for about six months like a very consistent once a day uh thing and the benefits are tremendous and i think that's awesome it's interesting too because like i really i couldn't tell you night and day what they are but it's like i'm maybe more aware and i couldn't even tell you what percent more. It's just an interesting thing. We digress. You mentioned something when you were talking about people with type 1 diabetes and you have this thing in common that you can't really explain with anyone else. What's it like for you to be able to interact with people with type 1 diabetes, people like you, who you immediately have something in common with one way or another for your career, for your job, for your passion as well?

[00:41:52] Robby Barbaro: Yeah, you know, that's a great question. And I just it's hard to put into words how grateful I am for the opportunity to do what I do and how much I enjoy it. I mean, people join our program because something's not something's not right. They want to they want to see an improvement. They want an adjustment. and for us to be able to give them the information for them to then you know make that change in their life and see the result they're looking for is just uh it's it's priceless it's it's amazing and we we do these weekly group coaching calls and so tuesday nights is people living with non insulin dependent and wednesday night is insulin dependent and um you know we have you know sometimes upwards of 15 or 20 people or so on those calls. And to get 15 or 20 people with type 1 on the call together, talking to each other and going over the same challenges and just them interacting with each other and being like, oh, yeah, it happened to me too. And hearing so many people, they just, after those calls, when they first joined, they're like, wow, I've never met that many type 1s in my entire life. I've never met that many type ones trying to do the same, you know, healthy lifestyle I'm trying to do. And that level of just understanding and connection is I think it's something that we as humans really need. So I'm just grateful.

[00:43:28] Rob Howe: Yeah, it's kind of a weird experience. It's like hard to put into words because I was very – before I got involved with this podcast and more involved with JDRF here in Dallas locally, Um, and I'd never been in a room with more than three or four diabetics in it, type ones in it. Um, and you know, without knowing, I'm sure in a big stadium at a sporting event, you put, you know, you probably got 15 in there, but you're not all together. Uh, but being in, going to a one walk last year here in Dallas for JDRF and there being, you know, 8,000 people there and probably half are, you know, have a half type 1. It's a different feeling. It's an entirely different sense of community. And like you said, some people have never even talked to another person about, you know, or been in a room with three or four other people. What does that, how does that community play into, how does that play a part into what you guys do with Mastering Diabetes with those calls?

[00:44:25] Robby Barbaro: Yeah, it's, I mean, it's a big part. So we have the calls and then we also have a private Facebook group where people communicate as many times as they want per day. And then a lot of times people will connect offline. I know there's been some interactions where people lived in the same city, could meet in person. Obviously, we do in-person retreats and having that experience. It's really great. It's just – connection is so important. It's just so important.

[00:44:55] Rob Howe: If you don't mind, and I'm not sure how detailed you can get, what's your favorite story, success story from Mastering Diabetes?

[00:45:05] Robby Barbaro: Oh, boy. That's a good one. It's like acting like your favorite kid or something. I'm not going to say my favorite. I'll just think of which one comes to mind. I mean, boy, there's a lot. But there's this one woman, Patricia, who actually got diagnosed with type 1, I think it was in her 60s. It was very, very late in life. Wow. And she actually lives in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. And she just the way she found out about us was kind of funny. Somebody had posted a video of Cyrus in a Facebook group and they were literally making fun of Cyrus. They were like, how could somebody say that this fruit is good for people living with diabetes? And she was doing the low-carb thing to the best of her ability and it just wasn't getting her results she was looking for. and so she's like okay you know what I'll check this guy out and she set up a phone call with him he's like she's like okay I'll give this a shot and she's just got like a great personality she's really loud like every time she's on the call she would just like scream and everybody had to turn their volume down um she's just really funny and she came in the program and just started making changes and I think she's lost I think like 60 pounds by now um a pretty dramatic drop in her a1c i think it's the sevens down to like i think the high fives now i have to double check these numbers are not 100 accurate i have to go look at her profile patricia please patricia if you hear this please email yeah please please give us the correct numbers um and but the most important thing is just her quality of life and her energy and just feeling good and being like wow i can eat these foods that I love and my blood glucose is solid. And she's just, she's a great story. I mean, we have countless stories like that. Then we have this one on YouTube, this guy, Dave George, just struggling with lots and lots of problems, like beyond just diabetes. And then, you know, that's one of the big things about our program is that we are not just about diabetes numbers. We're about overall health. And, you know, one thing we all need to remember as people living with type 1 diabetes, any form of diabetes, is the number one killer is heart disease. The number one killer of people living with type 1 diabetes is heart disease. Not necessarily a high A1c or high blood glucose readings. That's not really what kills us. So just fixing blood glucose numbers is not really the most important thing to a certain extent. but you got to worry about overall health. You got to address overall health and reducing one's chance of heart disease is a big deal. So people can go to our website and see a bunch more testimonials, but Dave and Patricia are two people that come to mind.

[00:48:07] Rob Howe: That's great, and thank you for sharing those. And I think, you know, it's easy to look at, and I like what you said about, you know, treat the whole body. You know, it's not just one thing. you still gotta still gotta treat the entire uh you know you're you're built what's the ultimate goal right to live a healthy life um and you know there's so many other components to that outside of diabetes absolutely so let's talk here and uh i'm about to ask a question that i always ask on all my podcasts but um and i'm excited to hear your answer because i think it'll be a little bit different than maybe some of the ones that i've heard before but before we get there um what are you hopeful for what may i'll rephrase what are you most hopeful for um in the future of of type 1 like and i and i think i'll preface this with i think i i think this is the best time to live with type 1 diabetes if there is such a thing um there's a lot of great technology there's much great uh research there's guys like you and cyrus and there's and others who are um at least even just painting a picture of a healthy life with type 1 diabetes, which didn't exist 20 years ago. And so I think if there is such a thing, now is the best time. But what are you, as somebody who's on the forefront, who talks to other type 1s all the time, what are you most hopeful for?

[00:49:28] Robby Barbaro: Yeah, I mean, I don't want to get too controversial here, but I'm just going to tell you the truth, say it straight up. What I'm hopeful for is I hope that the diabetes community at large, whether it's type 1 or type 2, begins to at least just show some respect towards the people like me and Cyrus and what we're doing of teaching people how to follow a low-fat plant-based whole food diet. I really feel like we're just, just carbohydrates are bad, they're terrible, and we're just throwing out as like crazies, this is ridiculous. And I just hope as a community that the first stage would be just to be open to the education and the possibility, and then taking the next step and really talking about these things factually and really looking into the peer-reviewed research we're talking about looking into the success stories that we have and just being like okay wait a minute that's an option like if somebody doesn't want to do it like i get it like i totally understand the appeal of a bernstein tile style approach and the whole that whole community of people um i forget i forget type 1 grit i think is the as a group on Facebook. They have just a bunch of people, great testimonials, low A1Cs, flatline, I get all that. But to at least just acknowledge that what we're doing is an option and it works well too. And just so people can know. And really, I hope that education can trickle down into mainstream education. And I know even the low-carb people probably feel the same way because you know the regular mainstream things being taught is just you know the standard american diet which does nobody any good there's nothing special or remarkable happening when a when anybody living with diabetes goes and follows these standard ada guidelines it's just nothing's happening special so i want this information to be an option for people out there and to know where to get resources how to try it and and really just the approach be respected and part of the

[00:51:32] Rob Howe: discussion and i think i think that i mean it's so weird to think about like dietary junk science and just talk about how much of that there is out there right so uh and just like the the oftentimes the loudest you know the loudest minority of those people are the least educated of the of how those processes work and i think me personally i'm just against uh it's funny like I love Star Wars. This is a weird, nerdy thing to admit. And in the worst Star Wars movie of all of them, the third prequel, they talk about only a Sith deals in absolutes. And so whenever people say there's only one way to do something, I immediately am like, okay, well, clearly I don't understand the nuance of human life. So I think when people attack new or innovative or things that may be outside of their normal purview, they get defensive about them. And I think that's what prevents so much learning right now. So I want to get controversial on the podcast because otherwise no one will download it eventually. So what do people say when those people that you're talking about, like the diabetic community at large, What are some of the obstacles that you guys have to overcome?

[00:52:54] Robby Barbaro: Yeah, so the biggest misconceptions are that number one, people don't fully understand what we are saying is a low-fat diet. A low-fat diet does not exceed 15% of total calories from fat. That is the maximum to be on a low-fat diet. Now, if you want to do like total grams, you could say no more than 30 total grams. But again, that's going to change based on how much you eat and how much you weigh. but 15% of calories max, closer to 10 and maybe even a little bit lower. That is a truly low-fat diet. And we're also saying no animal products on that diet. So the fat that you are having is coming from plant foods. And number two is coming from whole foods. So that's one big misconception. And then people will, whether it's type 2 or type 1, they'll eat a meal that we recommend or they'll eat some fruit and they'll see a high blood glucose reading. and then they'll be like, well, look at that. Like how can you tell me that your fruit didn't just cause my high blood glucose? And they haven't taken the time to really read and understand what we're talking about where the reason is because of insulin resistance. You don't reverse insulin resistance in one meal. The whole concept of the reason the sugar, the glucose couldn't get into the cell is because you're insulin resistant and it's not working properly. um and you'll just that mistake you'll see over and over again and then for another nuance particularly for type ones is insulin timing so in order to do this properly number one first you have to follow a low-fat diet for you know at least a week or so you know you can you actually you do see results in days if you execute it properly but but you have to be following a low-fat diet number one and then number two you have to get your insulin timing right so if you inject insulin and then go and eat a fruit meal or something like, you know, or a potato starch meal that you'll see on our Mastering Diabetes Instagram or a fruit type meal you'll see on my personal Instagram, if you eat right after you inject insulin, you're going to see a massive spike because insulin is not working. So on this approach, you've got to understand that the glucose is going to get in your bloodstream quicker, so the insulin has to be working. so there's like that's that becomes a nuanced thing for each person based on how long does it take that's going to depend on how high you were beforehand um how uh what time of day whether you are actually doing a low-fat diet and you know how quickly your blood glucose was going up beforehand i mean you could some people you could inject insulin and need depending on the situation you could need 30, 45 minutes before you can actually start eating a meal. And in that case, then people will see a healthy, normal rise in blood glucose. I mean, those are the three biggest points. But then there's also other points where we'll just agree, we just have to agree to disagree, the low-carb people and then the low-fat people. Whereas we're teaching people that when you eat food, a healthy, normal human being, their blood glucose, it goes up and then it comes back down. Like that is healthy, normal physiology. Whereas you'll see the very, very low-carb people looking for that flat-line blood glucose, they just want to literally be flat all day. And there's this huge celebration of that. And we're sitting here saying that's not necessary. That's not really healthy physiology. So, I mean, those are some of the more controversial topics. But the other point is, like if you want to get into this, I mean, we're trying to get people to understand on a factual basis. Again, it's not like trying to be mean or anything. It's just a factual basis. If you're following a super low-carbohydrate diet, you are insulin resistant. You can figure this out by doing your carb-insulin ratio. So Bernstein is eating roughly like 30 grams of carbs per day, and I think he's taking roughly like 10 total units per day. That's a 3 to 1 ratio. I'm eating more like 700, 800, so whatever. You can look at my YouTube channel. There's different days. Some days are 600. Some days are 750, whatever. I'm eating way up there, and my total insulin is somewhere around 40. Sometimes it's a little bit below. Maybe some days a little bit higher. So that total ratio is like, I don't know, somewhere around like 20 to 1-ish. And Cyrus is even a little bit better, and we have other clients even a little bit better. It's not a competition. The point is it's way more insulin sensitive. So – and that's important because insulin resistance is linked to all the other chronic diseases, heart disease, cancers. It's a big deal. So, you know, it's just – it is what it is. You can get a flatline blood glucose but you're still insulin resistant.

[00:57:47] Rob Howe: Right. It's interesting. I think mostly I'm just here learning. I'm just here learning. And I'm getting a little bit of echo on your end. I might have to clip that out. But Robbie, I thank you for opening up and kind of digging into the issue because I think the main thing that I want to make sure we do is give a voice to – first of all, give a voice to people who are trying to make a difference and trying to help. and who are actually really working on the science as well and are doing the hard work. Since this has been like a podcast full of quotes, one of my favorites of all time is from Mark Cuban. He talks about that most people won't take the time. Like most people won't take the time to get a knowledge advantage. So they won't do the time to do the research. So, you know, I want to give a voice to the people who are and who can, you know, if there's a way to reach somebody who could use you guys' help and is looking to learn and see what other people are doing. We've got to have both sides of the conversation.

[00:58:55] Robby Barbaro: Absolutely. And I love that you're doing that. And I love it. I think it's important. And again, I guess I want to make it clear. We're not like, I'm not like anti those people. Listen, anybody who's a type, first off, anybody in the world, I love them regardless because they're here, on planet earth and we're all humans but anybody who's like a type 1 you know doing you know taking the effort to follow a a bernstein style thing like like first off if you're type 1 in general just for dealing with type 1 props like but if you're going the extra effort to try really hard and do that like that hashtag respect you know like i get like that's cool you know i'm not like it's nothing against these people it's just you know it's i just hope that we can get to a place where everybody respects each other states the facts and then each person out there can decide what they want to do like you can make an educated decision do i want to go super low carb bursing route do i want to be in right in the middle american diabetes association and not really care or do i want to go low fat like pick one and feel good about it and have the facts

[01:00:02] Rob Howe: yeah it's interesting i hope that we i'm not sure if you're familiar with wim hof the ice man. I am playing with Wim Hof. That guy's amazing. Pretty incredible guy. If you've made it this far into the episode and you're still here, please go look up Wim Hof because his story is incredible. And I think the biggest part that I get from it is that it's rooted in like a deep emotional quest because his wife suffered from bipolar disorder and committed suicide, which sort of prompted his lifelong journey into the human body and how it responds to things. But for years, the biggest part, and this is why I brought him up, for years he was laughed out of the scientific community as a heretic and considered just a nut job. And now, only now in the last two or three years, has his research been just even accepted. And now he's doing some amazing breakthrough things. so I definitely want to give you some encouragement there I think the time is only right when the time is right so keep doing what you're doing keep helping people and keep spreading that word and to anybody out there who's doing that I think there comes a point where you just have to reach into yourself and believe and I'm glad that you guys are doing what you're doing

[01:01:20] Robby Barbaro: I like that man, I appreciate it, thank you

[01:01:22] Rob Howe: um all right so this is my this is my last uh it's always my last question on the podcast um and i'm interested to hear your response so if uh here's the context you're in an airport uh and your gate is going to close in 30 seconds and you have got to be on that flight whatever's on the other end you've got to be there um and you run into somebody who's either struggling with uh type 1 or recently been diagnosed uh what's the one thing that you tell them in that time

[01:01:54] Robby Barbaro: frame what's the one thing i tell them i could be promotional and say go to masteringdiabetes.org you'll get all your cards answered um but man what's the one thing i mean honestly i mean i'm just such a practical person i i would i would give them a resource i'd be like go to forks over knives.com and just read every blog and then you'll go get it like but if i couldn't give them a resource, like I actually had to give them some type of tip, I mean, I would tell them to reduce their fat intake. Like, that's it. I mean, this is, as far as, you want to optimize diabetes health and you want to pick one thing, it literally comes down as simple as truly reducing your fat intake to no more than 30 grams per day or less than 15% of calories from fat. If you do that, you focus on that one factor, you're going to be in good shape.

[01:02:47] Rob Howe: And then you get on the plane and you fly away.

[01:02:49] Robby Barbaro: That's it.

[01:02:51] Rob Howe: That's great, man. Robbie, thanks so much for taking the time. This interview went a little bit longer than some of the other ones even did. And I know you're a busy guy and I really appreciate you coming on the show and being so easy to get time scheduled with. It was great.

[01:03:07] Robby Barbaro: Hey, thank you. I mean, I love what you're doing. And I'm happy to be on the show. I hope some people find this valuable. and I hope to continue the dialogue. If I upset anybody, I'm sorry, but I just hope we continue the dialogue and we all can just talk about things and do the best we can for our personal health.

[01:03:29] Rob Howe: Yeah, but the dialogue is important. And I think about that about almost any issue of importance. The dialogue has to happen, and I'm glad that I can facilitate that in some way. I'd love to make somebody so mad that they want to get on the podcast and yell their point from the rooftops, I think that would be fantastic.

[01:03:50] Robby Barbaro: I would love that. Send me that interview.

[01:03:52] Rob Howe: Yeah, I definitely will. Great. Well, Robbie, thanks so much again. If our listeners want to find you, I know we've already kind of talked about all your places, but this is your chance to kind of give them, where do they need to look to find you or Cyrus online?

[01:04:06] Robby Barbaro: Yeah, the best place to go would be masteringdiabetes.org. And honestly, the best thing I could do, if anybody's listening to this and they're going to go like take some action after this would be to go to our website and click summit. In the navigation bar, you click summit. You can sign up for free and we have interviews with the best of the best. I mean Dean Ornish, he's actually the, you know, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton's doctor. He's super famous. He's got amazing, amazing stuff. We've had a really good interview with him. Joel Fuhrman we have on there. We have Matt Letterman. We have Dr. Michael Greger. These are all free interviews in this summit. And the information they cover is really, really important stuff. So check out that resource. And if you have questions, people can contact us. I'm on Instagram. People write comments. I answer them. YouTube, we have a YouTube channel. But it's really – you can link it all up through masteringdiabetes.org.

[01:05:04] Rob Howe: Fantastic. And I'll include links to all those links as well as some of the ones that we talked about in the podcast throughout the interview in the show notes. Sounds good. Perfect. All right. Thanks, man. Yeah, thank you. Thanks for listening to Diabetics Doing Things. Subscribe to our newsletter for weekly emails and behind-the-scenes content. And if you or someone you know has an amazing story to share, send an email to rob at diabeticsdoingthings.com.